So, I talked to my lvl 2, and he told me they're dropping mana leaks in October and making them unusable in standard.
When I asked him why, he told me that wizards had made the card extreamly over powered for standard and I laugh.
He was right. I mean I can't stand people who use any kind of counter spell during casual play, so it was good news for me, but after seeing mana leak go, I've just realized we have so much further to go! Haha
nnnnoooooo
It's a pitty I know, but look at it this way. They banned my {Tolarian Academy} in legacy!
Quote from: Kuberr on May 22, 2012, 10:52:35 PM
It's a pitty I know, but look at it this way. They banned my {Tolarian Academy} in legacy!
And rightly so.
If I cannot have my {Lightning Bolt} than I pity not those who lose {Mana Leak}.
Quote from: cltrn81 on May 22, 2012, 10:56:29 PM
Quote from: Kuberr on May 22, 2012, 10:52:35 PM
It's a pitty I know, but look at it this way. They banned my {Tolarian Academy} in legacy!
And rightly so.
People became too afraid of the artifact aggro. Haha
Lightning bolt was another one I struggled with. I mean honestly, how much thought do you have to put into building a deck around cards that say "deal X damage to creature or player"?
Quote from: Kuberr on May 22, 2012, 11:05:45 PM
Quote from: cltrn81 on May 22, 2012, 10:56:29 PM
Quote from: Kuberr on May 22, 2012, 10:52:35 PM
It's a pitty I know, but look at it this way. They banned my {Tolarian Academy} in legacy!
And rightly so.
People became too afraid of the artifact aggro. Haha
Lightning bolt was another one I struggled with. I mean honestly, how much thought do you have to put into building a deck around cards that say "deal X damage to creature or player"?
All those 0 CMC artis makes the academy just ridonkulous. I will say I would rather they ban the academy instead of the arti lands......I think they had to make a decision between those two and they chose the academy.
Yeah, it's a good thing they are completely trashing counterspells. Nobody likes a game that involves in-depth strategy and risk. It's a good thing it is all big creatures now. And it's a good damn thing that there is only one halfway-decent counterspell so far that will stay standard.
They didn't make mana leak overpowered; it was never overpowered. It was just one of the best counterspells. But broken? Overpowered? Hell, no. They might have made cards that, combined with mana leak, were overpowered. Mistake!
I get the sense that Wizards doesn't like control at all. Everything going on right now points to that notion.
They are just changing the meta that's all. I wouldn't say they hate control.
Not much at all really. But it isn't the building process that's hard, it is the play process. Knowing what to shoot and when makes a good red player. Sitting back and looking for that one vital bolt to loosen is more blue. In my opinion {Lightning Bolt} and {Mana Leak} sit in the same boat together... The S.S. Trollface!
Lightning was more of a pain. If you are smart you can avoid a mana leak. Lightning bolt is like..."ok time for me to go poddy on your fav pair of shoes!!! Bahaha"
Btw I am not saying control is impossible now...just saying wizards is making it...a lot harder.
Quote from: Coffee Vampire on May 22, 2012, 11:13:31 PM
Lightning was more of a pain. If you are smart you can avoid a mana leak. Lightning bolt is like..."ok time for me to go poddy on your fav pair of shoes!!! Bahaha"
Btw I am not saying control is impossible now...just saying wizards is making it...a lot harder.
Funny you say this. A little bird in the rumor mill said something reprints of possibly {Counterspell} and the ever-hated {Stasis}
I hope the birds are right. But until the spoiler comes, rumors are exactly what they are--and nothing more...rumors.
Quote from: Leviathan on May 22, 2012, 11:11:07 PM
Not much at all really. But it isn't the building process that's hard, it is the play process. Knowing what to shoot and when makes a good red player. Sitting back and looking for that one vital bolt to loosen is more blue. In my opinion {Lightning Bolt} and {Mana Leak} sit in the same boat together... The S.S. Trollface!
I agree with you in some sense. I remember back in the day people could put amazing goblin fire decks together and it destroyed. Or even artifact dragon decks. And those few bolts or shocks you would see would throw the opponent off just enough to win the game.
At least that's how I always saw it.
Quote from: Coffee Vampire on May 22, 2012, 11:27:34 PM
I hope the birds are right. But until the spoiler comes, rumors are exactly what they are--and nothing more...rumors.
Very true sir
I like playing ramp against leaks...it removes the OP ness :p
Quote from: Sagemaster on May 23, 2012, 12:12:13 AM
I like playing ramp against leaks...it removes the OP ness :p
What were you thinking?
I was thinking 5 mana available at untap during turn 3 ;p
Quote from: Sagemaster on May 23, 2012, 12:14:57 AM
I was thinking 5 mana available at untap during turn 3 ;p
What if you play against U/W?
Then I keep shooting out my cards...monogreen works really well haha
Quote from: Sagemaster on May 23, 2012, 12:19:02 AM
Then I keep shooting out my cards...monogreen works really well haha
Until you see {Apocalypse}.
But I doses what you're saying. It would be pretty amazing to see. I wouldn't be the one with the mana leaks though. I'll just transfusion with black or red from legacy.
WW and MG are pretty decent against them too. Too fast. And also not gay like RDW
Quote from: Kuberr on May 23, 2012, 12:27:08 AM
Quote from: Sagemaster on May 23, 2012, 12:19:02 AM
Then I keep shooting out my cards...monogreen works really well haha
Until you see {Apocalypse}.
But I doses what you're saying. It would be pretty amazing to see. I wouldn't be the one with the mana leaks though. I'll just transfusion with black or red from legacy.
Haha right! I don't like leaks cause I stall and they get useless after a while, but they have their uses especially in esper!
I understand people using them in a tourney or something, but casually it's just no fun if you can't even get your deck going!
Quote from: Willthomjr on May 23, 2012, 12:28:02 AM
WW and MG are pretty decent against them too. Too fast. And also not gay like RDW
HUSH!!! lol jk
The problem isnt {mana leak} its {snapcaster mage} they let his cmc to be 2 low. A 2/1 creature by itself is a solid 2 drop, in standard. But they gave it flash and the flashback ability. It will probly get banned before it cycles out. Thats just my thoughts.
It won't, people already are playing a playset of the counter-hate lands.
I don't know what meta everyone plays with, but locally {Snapcaster Mage} is a joke. With {Wolfir Silverheart} and {Primeval Titan}, and all the threats that Wolf Run Ramp decks can do, combined with WW decks and RDW, blue is hardly an issue. Control can only do so much, and counters are hardly reliable or abundant.
I think this current meta plays far too fast to run combos, and far too fast to play counter/control. It's aggro or bust. Even the top decks have almost all ditched Snapcaster for better aggro creatures.
It's happened to me, and I'm guilty of it too, {Revenge of the Hunted} hoses almost anything you could possibly do. It destroys WW, kills Delver and unless its direct face burn, makes Wolf Run MORE invincible then it ever was vs. {Mana Leak}
This is why I don't like standard. It's the fact that there's really no creativity anymore. It's just the same decks. Nothing really new. Every fnm and grand prix I go to are filled with the exact same decks. It's quite annoying.
Wait, when did this become a bunch of people theoretical fightonomics at a bar, between {Mana Leak} and some of the more popular deck archetypes in Standard? "Well if you were trying to get off a {Primeval Titan}, i'd just Leak it!" "Oh yeah? Well i'd have already ramped up to 9 mana! Or been using my playset of {Cavern of Souls}!" "Well then i'd use {Ghost Quarter!}!" "hey remember when standard used to be good?" raarghrabblerabble
Quote from: Maximo on May 23, 2012, 12:02:58 PM"hey remember when standard used to be good?" raarghrabblerabble
Standard is actually a newer term. Lmao.
But yeah. Kinda got off topic there.
Quote from: Willthomjr on May 23, 2012, 12:28:02 AM
WW and MG are pretty decent against them too. Too fast. And also not gay like RDW
You sayin somethin about my rdw boy?
Quote from: CajunJynx on May 23, 2012, 12:47:41 PM
Quote from: Willthomjr on May 23, 2012, 12:28:02 AM
WW and MG are pretty decent against them too. Too fast. And also not gay like RDW
You sayin somethin about my rdw boy?
Maayybee😜
There's so much hate on this thread. The thing about {Mana Leak} is that it's one of the few really dependable blue spells us blue players got. Blue cards at face value are the worst, and I'm a blue player tried and true and I'll tell you that.
What I'd rather have is more decent options in my color. I don't care if it's mana leak. RG players are so lucky with the amount of decent cards you have, {Hellrider}, Prime Time, Huntmaster, Wolfir, Acidic Slime, Birds, Zealous Conscripts and the list goes on forever.
The reason blue decks are the way they are is the lack of diversity in support for quality blue. It's like WotC is making blue a "splash" only color. Seriously, when was the last time you saw a mono blue deck? Illusions? Maybe.
Without {Mana Leak}, blue is a dead color. If they get rid of it, which I even doubt in the first place, they better replace it with something worth a darn.
Quote from: SpiritedAway on May 23, 2012, 01:01:34 PM
There's so much hate on this thread. The thing about {Mana Leak} is that it's one of the few really dependable blue spells us blue players got. Blue cards at face value are the worst, and I'm a blue player tried and true and I'll tell you that.
What I'd rather have is more decent options in my color. I don't care if it's mana leak. RG players are so lucky with the amount of decent cards you have, {Hellrider}, Prime Time, Huntmaster, Wolfir, Acidic Slime, Birds, Zealous Conscripts and the list goes on forever.
The reason blue decks are the way they are is the lack of diversity in support for quality blue. It's like WotC is making blue a "splash" only color. Seriously, when was the last time you saw a mono blue deck? Illusions? Maybe.
Without {Mana Leak}, blue is a dead color. If they get rid of it, which I even doubt in the first place, they better replace it with something worth a darn.
Watch. They get rid of mana leak, but bring back {Power Sink} you won't even think about mana leak again. Haha
Quote from: Sevenfold on May 23, 2012, 03:56:01 AM
The problem isnt {mana leak} its {snapcaster mage} they let his cmc to be 2 low. A 2/1 creature by itself is a solid 2 drop, in standard. But they gave it flash and the flashback ability. It will probly get banned before it cycles out. Thats just my thoughts.
^^ This, minus the banning part.
If they can give U a counter that doesn't have synergy with Snappy, then I think they will. R&D has expressed a move towards creature combat and away from spell-slinging for some time now.
Quote from: CajunJynx on May 23, 2012, 12:47:41 PM
Quote from: Willthomjr on May 23, 2012, 12:28:02 AM
WW and MG are pretty decent against them too. Too fast. And also not gay like RDW
You sayin somethin about my rdw boy?
Trollin at its finest
hmm..
how about..
AEther Null-Mage
3UU
Creature - Human Wizard
Flash
When AEther Null-Mage enters the battlefield, counter target spell.
Evoke 1UU
2/4
(p.s. wizards if you see this online please use it anyway i swear to god i'll be so happy)
Quote from: Maximo on May 23, 2012, 04:30:09 PM
hmm..
how about..
AEther Null-Mage
3UU
Creature - Human Wizard
Flash
When AEther Null-Mage enters the battlefield, counter target spell.
Evoke 1UU
2/4
(p.s. wizards if you see this online please use it anyway i swear to god i'll be so happy)
Now put THAT in your {Mimic Vat}! W00t!
Mimic vat should rotate first. ;)
Quote from: Maximo on May 23, 2012, 04:38:59 PM
Mimic vat should rotate first. ;)
Of course, of course. Still, kitchen tables would get
wrecked!
The question is, rare or common? It'd usually be a counter spell that can't be hit by snapcaster, and other times a 2/4 blocker, and on some rare occasions, both right when it needs to be.
{Mystic Snake} :)
Quote from: Clearmario on May 23, 2012, 12:53:48 PM
Quote from: CajunJynx on May 23, 2012, 12:47:41 PM
Quote from: Willthomjr on May 23, 2012, 12:28:02 AM
WW and MG are pretty decent against them too. Too fast. And also not gay like RDW
You sayin somethin about my rdw boy?
Maayybee😜
My werewolf deck has no prob with mana leak. I have won turn four against some controll decks.
ps: Rdw will decrease withe the rotation of {shrine of burning rage}
pps: ^^ I'll be happy!
Quote from: Thorn on May 23, 2012, 11:21:31 PM
Quote from: Clearmario on May 23, 2012, 12:53:48 PM
Quote from: CajunJynx on May 23, 2012, 12:47:41 PM
Quote from: Willthomjr on May 23, 2012, 12:28:02 AM
WW and MG are pretty decent against them too. Too fast. And also not gay like RDW
You sayin somethin about my rdw boy?
Maayybee😜
My werewolf deck has no prob with mana leak. I have won turn four against some controll decks.
ps: Rdw will decrease withe the rotation of {shrine of burning rage}
pps: ^^ I'll be happy!
Werewolf deck win t4?
T1 wolf bitten it transforms
T2 mayor of avabtruck? Swing with 2
T3 mayor transforms swing for 6 poop a wolf play kruin outlaw?
T4 all WW transformed double strike and all get in?
So based on that your opponent didn't play any spells in 4 turns?
Just having a hard time seeing it
Quote from: Willthomjr on May 23, 2012, 11:25:10 PM
Werewolf deck win t4?
T1 wolf bitten it transforms
T2 mayor of avabtruck? Swing with 2
T3 mayor transforms swing for 6 poop a wolf play kruin outlaw?
T4 all WW transformed double strike and all get in?
So based on that your opponent didn't play any spells in 4 turns?
Just having a hard time seeing it
Or a single, well timed (and not countered) {Moonmist}. I'm curious myself, but keeping an open mind.
This is why standard is garbage.
This cat just listed the entire strategy of the others guy's deck without seeing it? It's the predictability that makes standard so horrible.
Meow. Maybe I've played WW deck before :p Meow
Quote from: Willthomjr on May 24, 2012, 12:04:34 AM
Meow. Maybe I've played WW deck before :p Meow
Yeah. One of five decks. So it's a pretty good chance a lot of people have.
werewolves are a competetive deck now? that's new
I'd just lure werewolf decks in a trap they use {moonmist} I use {ratchet bomb} bahahaha
Quote from: Killin88 on May 24, 2012, 12:12:18 AM
I'd just lure werewolf decks in a trap they use {moonmist} I use {ratchet bomb} bahahaha
Not seeing it.
Quote from: Maximo on May 24, 2012, 12:23:57 AM
Quote from: Killin88 on May 24, 2012, 12:12:18 AM
I'd just lure werewolf decks in a trap they use {moonmist} I use {ratchet bomb} bahahaha
Not seeing it.
{Ratchet Bomb} = Silver Nuke. All werewolves -> XP
there's also of course vapor snagging them into submission.
WW are competetive and here
t1 {reckless waif}
(flips)
t2 {full moon's rise} attack for four
t3 {kruin outlaw} attack
t4 {mayor of avabruk} {moonmist} attack for lethal
I did this against a friend because all he got was a {bloodcrazed neonate} that was forced to attack so I blocked with the outlaw.
(Im not saying that a t4 win is common at all Im just saying its possible.)
Quote from: Kuberr on May 24, 2012, 12:02:29 AM
This is why standard is garbage.
This cat just listed the entire strategy of the others guy's deck without seeing it? It's the predictability that makes standard so horrible.
Why are you so negative? What is your problem?
Quote from: Maximo on May 24, 2012, 12:23:57 AM
Quote from: Killin88 on May 24, 2012, 12:12:18 AM
I'd just lure werewolf decks in a trap they use {moonmist} I use {ratchet bomb} bahahaha
Not seeing it.
fliped creatures have 0 mana cost tap destroyed all wolves for 2 mana
Quote from: SpiritedAway on May 24, 2012, 03:42:22 AM
Quote from: Kuberr on May 24, 2012, 12:02:29 AM
This is why standard is garbage.
This cat just listed the entire strategy of the others guy's deck without seeing it? It's the predictability that makes standard so horrible.
Why are you so negative? What is your problem?
Lol what?
standard is not predictable because of the cards, its because of the way people build decks. their are innovators and net deckers. out of those groups, those who lose are unable to anticipate the metagame, or do not understand deck interactions.
Quote from: scarsabrex on May 24, 2012, 04:32:40 PM
standard is not predictable because of the cards, its because of the way people build decks. their are innovators and net deckers. out of those groups, those who lose are unable to anticipate the metagame, or do not understand deck interactions.
I know. That's what I'm talking about
so blaming cards like mana leak or the titans is erroneous. and saying standard is too predictible is also erroneous. plenty of breakthrough decks appear, and plenty of homebrews get smashed. decks which consistently appear at the top are the result of countless playtesting and game theory think tanks. "predictability" is the result of hard work not laziness.
To be fair I think he means the thousands of net deckers that plague some FNM scenes. You know. "If I have seen further..."
Quote from: Maximo on May 24, 2012, 05:42:07 PM
To be fair I think he means the thousands of net deckers that plague some FNM scenes. You know. "If I have seen further..."
^^this
Fnm is full of them. I hate wasting my time. It's just not fun for me two play 5 rounds and see 2 or 3 of the same decks. I like when it gets mixed up.
ah well, standard fnm has always been a pain in the ass
Quote from: scarsabrex on May 24, 2012, 05:54:26 PM
ah well, standard fnm has always been a pain in the ass
I sometimes wish my shop would play more legacy fnm.
Quote from: scarsabrex on May 24, 2012, 05:23:27 PM
so blaming cards like mana leak or the titans is erroneous. and saying standard is too predictible is also erroneous. plenty of breakthrough decks appear, and plenty of homebrews get smashed. decks which consistently appear at the top are the result of countless playtesting and game theory think tanks. "predictability" is the result of hard work not laziness.
While this is true more often then not people default to a certain netdeck out of laziness. I have soon good home-brews but but thousands of people playing one deck yields more results than one person could possibly come up with. It may not be everywhere but my local shop is plagued by lazy netdeckers