Fling at an opponent for 16 points (probably enough to finish them off) in their turn, attack another opponent afterwards for 17. Seems rather simple and cheap after dropping him with Elvish Pipers.
Problem is, I'm sure Undying triggers before the graveyard shuffle, the wording specifically says when Emrakul is put into the graveyard, shuffle your graveyard into your library. It doesn't specify that Emrakul needs to be shuffled in as well.
I've been told by some people that it works fine as intended and others that I'd have to shuffle Emrakul in due to stack rules. I don't really think the stack actually comes to play in this, however, I can't work out which rules would represent this happening one way or the other.
Quote from: Sekkira on May 01, 2012, 11:53:30 AM
Fling at an opponent for 16 points (probably enough to finish them off) in their turn, attack another opponent afterwards for 17. Seems rather simple and cheap after dropping him with Elvish Pipers.
Problem is, I'm sure Undying triggers before the graveyard shuffle, the wording specifically says when Emrakul is put into the graveyard, shuffle your graveyard into your library. It doesn't specify that Emrakul needs to be shuffled in as well.
I've been told by some people that it works fine as intended and others that I'd have to shuffle Emrakul in due to stack rules. I don't really think the stack actually comes to play in this, however, I can't work out which rules would represent this happening one way or the other.
Since you're the affected player, you'd put the items on the stack how you want. Put the shuffle first, the Undying and you're GTG.
Do you want a specific rule?
Yeah, that'd be great thanks. It's annoying when I can pull off this combo in a group game without too much difficulty and I just conceed the argument due to two players disagreeing with me. Without any specific ruling to pull out, it would end up in a stupid back and forth argument that goes nowhere.
{Mikaeus, the Unhollowed}
{Emrakul, the Aeon's Torn}
Okay, we'll start off by acknowledging that both undying and Emrakul's ability are triggered abilities.
603.1. Triggered abilities have a trigger condition and an effect. They are written as "[Trigger condition], [effect]," and begin with the word "when," "whenever," or "at." They can also be expressed as "[When/Whenever/At] [trigger event], [effect]."
Since these are both triggered by the same action (Em going to the graveyard), you control both so you choose how to stack them:
603.3b If multiple abilities have triggered since the last time a player received priority, each player, in APNAP order, puts triggered abilities he or she controls on the stack in any order he or she chooses. (See rule 101.4.) Then the game once again checks for and resolves state-based actions until none are performed, then abilities that triggered during this process go on the stack. This process repeats until no new state-based actions are performed and no abilities trigger. Then the appropriate player gets priority.
If you want Em back, you'll put the undying trigger on top of the shuffle trigger. This will resolve first (assuming nothing else happens), putting Em in play with a +1/+1 counter. Then you will shuffle your graveyard into your library.
Good?
If it helps, tell them you were told by an official DCI Rules Advisor (me 😉).
Thank you very much ;D
My pleasure!
The BlackJester - combating Magic ignorance since 1996. 👊
Wait how are you flinging emrakul?? I didn't think you could
Quote from: Greg54js on May 01, 2012, 03:36:05 PM
Wait how are you flinging emrakul?? I didn't think you could
{Fling} doesn't target the creature being sacrificed.
Oh okay thanks for clearing that up
Quote from: Sekkira on May 01, 2012, 11:53:30 AM
Fling at an opponent for 16 points (probably enough to finish them off) in their turn, attack another opponent afterwards for 17. Seems rather simple and cheap after dropping him with Elvish Pipers.
Problem is, I'm sure Undying triggers before the graveyard shuffle, the wording specifically says when Emrakul is put into the graveyard, shuffle your graveyard into your library. It doesn't specify that Emrakul needs to be shuffled in as well.
I've been told by some people that it works fine as intended and others that I'd have to shuffle Emrakul in due to stack rules. I don't really think the stack actually comes to play in this, however, I can't work out which rules would represent this happening one way or the other.
This was probably said already, but the trigger of putting him in your yard making you shuffle the GY into your library puts him in the GY at that point, you would have to shuffle him in
Quote from: darkarts981 on May 01, 2012, 04:00:18 PM
Quote from: Sekkira on May 01, 2012, 11:53:30 AM
Fling at an opponent for 16 points (probably enough to finish them off) in their turn, attack another opponent afterwards for 17. Seems rather simple and cheap after dropping him with Elvish Pipers.
Problem is, I'm sure Undying triggers before the graveyard shuffle, the wording specifically says when Emrakul is put into the graveyard, shuffle your graveyard into your library. It doesn't specify that Emrakul needs to be shuffled in as well.
I've been told by some people that it works fine as intended and others that I'd have to shuffle Emrakul in due to stack rules. I don't really think the stack actually comes to play in this, however, I can't work out which rules would represent this happening one way or the other.
This was probably said already, but the trigger of putting him in your yard making you shuffle the GY into your library puts him in the GY at that point, you would have to shuffle him in
Assuming hes still there when the trigger resolves, sure.
Yeah, of course