my upkeep, last turn one of my creature died, so {Archangel Avacyn} transforms, but in response, opponent blinked her with {Eldrazi Displacer}
what happens?
transforms back? 3 damage?
thanks
Quote from: Noblellama on May 07, 2016, 03:44:06 AM
If I remember correctly you cannot respond to transform, though you can the ability of her "bolt" on the stack
Fact is they save you by blinking her and granting all your creatures indestructible again and his displace dies...
thanks
Quote from: Noblellama on May 07, 2016, 03:44:06 AM
If I remember correctly you cannot respond to transform, though you can the ability of her "bolt" on the stack
Fact is they save you by blinking her and granting all your creatures indestructible again and his displace dies...
I have to disagree.
When a creature dies, {archangel Avacyn} transforms at the beginning of the next upkeep.
This ability creates a delayed trigger ability, to transform Avacyn. Once she does, her damage ability triggers.
If you blink her in response to the delayed trigger, she won't transform.
For reference:
603.7c (http://imtgapp.com/forum/index.php?action=imtg;area=rule;number=603.7c): A delayed triggered ability that refers to a particular object still affects it even if the object changes characteristics. However, if that object is no longer in the zone it's expected to be in at the time the delayed triggered ability resolves, the ability won't affect it. (Note that if that object left that zone and then returned, it's a new object and thus won't be affected. See rule 400.7.)
Example: An ability that reads "Exile this creature at the beginning of the next end step" will exile the permanent even if it's no longer a creature during the next end step. However, it won't do anything if the permanent left the battlefield before then.
Quote from: Kaylesh on May 08, 2016, 06:22:42 PM
Quote from: Noblellama on May 07, 2016, 03:44:06 AM
If I remember correctly you cannot respond to transform, though you can the ability of her "bolt" on the stack
Fact is they save you by blinking her and granting all your creatures indestructible again and his displace dies...
I have to disagree.
When a creature dies, {archangel Avacyn} transforms at the beginning of the next upkeep.
This ability creates a delayed trigger ability, to transform Avacyn. Once she does, her damage ability triggers.
If you blink her in response to the delayed trigger, she won't transform.
For reference:
603.7c (http://imtgapp.com/forum/index.php?action=imtg;area=rule;number=603.7c): A delayed triggered ability that refers to a particular object still affects it even if the object changes characteristics. However, if that object is no longer in the zone it's expected to be in at the time the delayed triggered ability resolves, the ability won't affect it. (Note that if that object left that zone and then returned, it's a new object and thus won't be affected. See rule 400.7.)
Example: An ability that reads "Exile this creature at the beginning of the next end step" will exile the permanent even if it's no longer a creature during the next end step. However, it won't do anything if the permanent left the battlefield before then.
Well since we are at the upkeep it doesn't matter ? Avacyn transformed and the bolt ability is on the stack. If the avacyn were blinked a the end step then i would understand.
Or is it because you can answer to the transform ability ?
Quote from: Co2 on May 08, 2016, 08:00:12 PM
Quote from: Kaylesh on May 08, 2016, 06:22:42 PM
Quote from: Noblellama on May 07, 2016, 03:44:06 AM
If I remember correctly you cannot respond to transform, though you can the ability of her "bolt" on the stack
Fact is they save you by blinking her and granting all your creatures indestructible again and his displace dies...
I have to disagree.
When a creature dies, {archangel Avacyn} transforms at the beginning of the next upkeep.
This ability creates a delayed trigger ability, to transform Avacyn. Once she does, her damage ability triggers.
If you blink her in response to the delayed trigger, she won't transform.
For reference:
603.7c (http://imtgapp.com/forum/index.php?action=imtg;area=rule;number=603.7c): A delayed triggered ability that refers to a particular object still affects it even if the object changes characteristics. However, if that object is no longer in the zone it's expected to be in at the time the delayed triggered ability resolves, the ability won't affect it. (Note that if that object left that zone and then returned, it's a new object and thus won't be affected. See rule 400.7.)
Example: An ability that reads "Exile this creature at the beginning of the next end step" will exile the permanent even if it's no longer a creature during the next end step. However, it won't do anything if the permanent left the battlefield before then.
Well since we are at the upkeep it doesn't matter ? Avacyn transformed and the bolt ability is on the stack. If the avacyn were blinked a the end step then i would understand.
Or is it because you can answer to the transform ability ?
Exactly. At the beginning of your upkeep, the delayed trigger to transform her goes on the stack. If it resolves, the damage will be dealt, even if she's blinked (aside: seems like a nice way to abuse her). If she's blinked before the delayed trigger resolves, she'll be a new object, and won't be transformed.
Quote from: Noblellama on May 09, 2016, 11:50:54 AM
So is there a moment when she transforms, bolt goes on stack, that you can blink her and have her make your stuff invincible?
When she transforms to red side, bolt trigger goes on the stack. It has targets and still must pass priority on both sides to resolve. Respond as necessary.
So you would flash it before bolt trigger resolves
Her etb trigger as whitey avacyn makes everything you control indestructible
Bolt trigger resolves
----
But wait in response to you flashing her, hallowed moonlight!
that's so mean. At your upkeep. You have all the mana you need to blink her with {eldrazi displacer} and wreck the opposing battlefield
Quote from: Co2 on May 09, 2016, 06:59:05 PM
that's so mean. At your upkeep. You have all the mana you need to blink her with {eldrazi displacer} and wreck the opposing battlefield
Yeah, it becomes a one sided sweeper for {2}{C} and a creature.
Quote from: particle on May 09, 2016, 04:40:47 PM
Quote from: Noblellama on May 09, 2016, 11:50:54 AM
So is there a moment when she transforms, bolt goes on stack, that you can blink her and have her make your stuff invincible?
When she transforms to red side, bolt trigger goes on the stack. It has targets and still must pass priority on both sides to resolve. Respond as necessary.
Little nitpick here: the "bolt" trigger of Avacyn does not have targets. Every creature & every player. It is true priority is passed before it resolves.