{Truce} is worded in a typical way.
Each player draws up to two cards, for each card not drawn, you gain two life.
If you were to replace the draw, courtesy of {archmage ascension} or {abundance}, would you gain four life even if you still got cards?
Quote from: Kaylesh on March 12, 2016, 04:09:34 PM
{Truce} is worded in a typical way.
Each player draws up to two cards, for each card not drawn, you gain two life.
If you were to replace the draw, courtesy of {archmage ascension} or {abundance}, would you gain four life even if you still got cards?
This could go two ways. Either it considers that you chose the card draw triggers and then replaced those with {Archmage Ascension} and you don't get 4 life or it sees that you didn't draw any cards and you do get 4 life.
I started out certain of no life gain, reread 3 times and now I have no idea.
Now I am not a judge and don't actually know for sure, but from my perspective, logic dictates that for {truce} to resolve, you need to make a decision whether to draw or not to draw. As soon as you decide to draw, that's it, no life is gained. Then, you may replace those draw steps with other effects from other cards, but by this time {truce} has already decided that you don't gain any life, as that trigger has passed already.
Quote from: Mr_Fahrenheit on March 12, 2016, 06:11:24 PM
Now I am not a judge and don't actually know for sure, but from my perspective, logic dictates that for {truce} to resolve, you need to make a decision whether to draw or not to draw. As soon as you decide to draw, that's it, no life is gained. Then, you may replace those draw steps with other effects from other cards, but by this time {truce} has already decided that you don't gain any life, as that trigger has passed already.
Not a judge either, but the thing is, you draw during the resolution, not after. Replacement effects also replace the draws immediately.
Take {sylvan library}. It clearly states in the rules that if you haven't actually drawn a card, you don't have to put any back.
That's what started me wondering on this interaction.
Yea Kaylesh is correct. Replacement effects are only replacing the event if it were to happen. If your not going to draw the cards, you can't apply replacement effects.
Quote from: particle on March 13, 2016, 03:48:18 PM
Yea Kaylesh is correct. Replacement effects are only replacing the event if it were to happen. If your not going to draw the cards, you can't apply replacement effects.
This answer confuses me a bit.
You replace as you would draw, but how does that influence {truce} as it looks at cards drawn from it in the second part of its resolution?
Quote from: Kaylesh on March 13, 2016, 03:51:52 PM
Quote from: particle on March 13, 2016, 03:48:18 PM
Yea Kaylesh is correct. Replacement effects are only replacing the event if it were to happen. If your not going to draw the cards, you can't apply replacement effects.
This answer confuses me a bit.
You replace as you would draw, but how does that influence {truce} as it looks at cards drawn from it in the second part of its resolution?
Regardless if you replace the draw or not, first you must decide if you are going to draw with truce. If and only if you are going to draw a card, then you can apply a replacement effect. Regardless if you apply that effect, you still chose to draw when truce asked you which is all it cares about (and that you had cards in your deck to draw).
Quote from: particle on March 13, 2016, 03:56:07 PM
Quote from: Kaylesh on March 13, 2016, 03:51:52 PM
Quote from: particle on March 13, 2016, 03:48:18 PM
Yea Kaylesh is correct. Replacement effects are only replacing the event if it were to happen. If your not going to draw the cards, you can't apply replacement effects.
This answer confuses me a bit.
You replace as you would draw, but how does that influence {truce} as it looks at cards drawn from it in the second part of its resolution?
Regardless if you replace the draw or not, first you must decide if you are going to draw with truce. If and only if you are going to draw a card, then you can apply a replacement effect. Regardless if you apply that effect, you still chose to draw when truce asked you which is all it cares about (and that you had cards in your deck to draw).
Crystal clear. Thank you, good sir.
The problem here is the very specific and odd wording of truce. Because it specifically says "for each card less than two drawn this way", the other side of it could "I drew 0 cards because I replaced them, I gain 4 life." I've been asking around in my judge circles about this, but presently, I'd err on the side of how Particle has spelled it out.
I'll let you guys know if anything else comes up.
Very much appreciated, Rem.
It wouldn't be the first time my logic was flawed, but the dilemma you describe was exactly the one I couldn't figure out, or could find any rulings about.