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Magic (The Gathering) => Rules => Topic started by: Younghawk on February 06, 2016, 02:30:30 PM

Title: Zada
Post by: Younghawk on February 06, 2016, 02:30:30 PM
Question with  {Zada, Hedron Grinder} if I were to cast  {Unity of Purpose} on him with him being the only target for support would it still get copied and the instance of untapping the creatures with +1/+1 counters still go off seeing as though it's and after effect of the target?
Title: Re: Zada
Post by: redwolv on February 06, 2016, 06:02:25 PM
I believe so.
Title: Re: Zada
Post by: particle on February 07, 2016, 07:28:11 AM
The support 2 and the untap steps are not tied to each other. Note that all support cards say "up to x target creatures."   Even if all your creatures had shroud, you could cast this just for the untap effect. Similarly, you could cast {shoulder to shoulder} with no dudes just to draw a card.
Title: Re: Zada
Post by: Oldschoolmtgnoob on February 07, 2016, 05:55:51 PM
So what if you did {shoulder to shoulder} targeting only zeda and had 5 other creatures out? Would you do the "+1/+1 counters on up to 2 target creatures" 5 more times and draw 6 cards total?
Title: Re: Zada
Post by: Remillo on February 07, 2016, 06:25:59 PM
In the case of "Up to X target creature" cards with Zada, here's how it goes.

You cast your Shoulder to Shoulder choosing to only target Zada.
Zada says "Cool, you targeted only me, so copy it for each other creature you control that could be a target"
Each of those copies says "The original only targeted one creature, so I'll also target only one creature"
You end up with each copy only targeting one creature each, and each copy will still draw you a card.

I works similarly with Unity of Purpose, which will end up with you untapping your creatures for each copy.
Title: Re: Zada
Post by: particle on February 07, 2016, 07:46:18 PM
Quote from: Remillo on February 07, 2016, 06:25:59 PM
In the case of "Up to X target creature" cards with Zada, here's how it goes.

You cast your Shoulder to Shoulder choosing to only target Zada.
Zada says "Cool, you targeted only me, so copy it for each other creature you control that could be a target"
Each of those copies says "The original only targeted one creature, so I'll also target only one creature"
You end up with each copy only targeting one creature each, and each copy will still draw you a card.

I works similarly with Unity of Purpose, which will end up with you untapping your creatures for each copy.

Curious, what causes the copied spells to be forced to only target once? Is there an up to here? Could you choose not to target one of the possible choices?
Title: Re: Zada
Post by: Thefluffymacheen on February 07, 2016, 09:36:46 PM
Quote from: particle on February 07, 2016, 07:46:18 PM
Quote from: Remillo on February 07, 2016, 06:25:59 PM
In the case of "Up to X target creature" cards with Zada, here's how it goes.

You cast your Shoulder to Shoulder choosing to only target Zada.
Zada says "Cool, you targeted only me, so copy it for each other creature you control that could be a target"
Each of those copies says "The original only targeted one creature, so I'll also target only one creature"
You end up with each copy only targeting one creature each, and each copy will still draw you a card.

I works similarly with Unity of Purpose, which will end up with you untapping your creatures for each copy.

Curious, what causes the copied spells to be forced to only target once? Is there an up to here? Could you choose not to target one of the possible choices?
When you copy a card, anything you chose for it is copied along with the card. So for example, {Ruthless Instincts} targeting Zada copies whichever mode you chose when you cast it.
Title: Re: Zada
Post by: particle on February 07, 2016, 09:38:10 PM
Quote from: Thefluffymacheen on February 07, 2016, 09:36:46 PM
Quote from: particle on February 07, 2016, 07:46:18 PM
Quote from: Remillo on February 07, 2016, 06:25:59 PM
In the case of "Up to X target creature" cards with Zada, here's how it goes.

You cast your Shoulder to Shoulder choosing to only target Zada.
Zada says "Cool, you targeted only me, so copy it for each other creature you control that could be a target"
Each of those copies says "The original only targeted one creature, so I'll also target only one creature"
You end up with each copy only targeting one creature each, and each copy will still draw you a card.

I works similarly with Unity of Purpose, which will end up with you untapping your creatures for each copy.

Curious, what causes the copied spells to be forced to only target once? Is there an up to here? Could you choose not to target one of the possible choices?
When you copy a card, anything you chose for it is copied along with the card. So for example, {Ruthless Instincts} targeting Zada copies whichever mode you chose when you cast it.

Saying "anything you copy" seems quite broad when your not copying the target...
Title: Re: Zada
Post by: griffin131 on February 08, 2016, 02:05:11 AM
I wonder if there's an instruction telling you the targets are different. Oh, there is.

There's also a rule saying a copy of a spell has the same target.


706.10. To copy a spell, activated ability, or triggered ability means to put a copy of it onto the stack; a copy of a spell isn't cast and a copy of an activated ability isn't activated. A copy of a spell or ability copies both the characteristics of the spell or ability and all decisions made for it, including modes, targets, the value of X, and additional or alternative costs. (See rule 601, "Casting Spells.")
Title: Re: Zada
Post by: Z5 on February 08, 2016, 11:14:48 PM
Will zada go infinite with a card with storm?
Title: Re: Zada
Post by: Sardok on February 08, 2016, 11:19:52 PM
Quote from: Z5 on February 08, 2016, 11:14:48 PM
Will zada go infinite with a card with storm?

No.

Copies of spells with storm are merely copies; they are not cast.