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Decks (Magic The Gathering) => Standard => Topic started by: Lunis22 on January 27, 2016, 08:13:09 AM

Title: Kalitas vs indestructible
Post by: Lunis22 on January 27, 2016, 08:13:09 AM
I have noticed that the new set has some new ways of dealing with indestructible. After reading the effect of kalitas, I am confused as to whether his effect is yet another way of doing this. [If a non token creature would die exile it instead.] this to me says that it would work to exile cards that would usually immune to a cards destroy effects due to indestructible. This belief is derived from the fact that other cards that deal with effects of when a card dies does not specify [would die], just simply when this or another creature dies, this action happens. Any thoughts or rulings about this case that I have missed?
Title: Re: Kalitas vs indestructible
Post by: Kaylesh on January 27, 2016, 09:07:50 AM
First off, while it is a question about a standard card, this would probably fit best in "rules".

To answer your question, let's take a look at what happens:

702.12b (http://imtgapp.com/forum/index.php?action=imtg;area=rule;number=702.12b): A permanent with indestructible can't be destroyed. Such permanents aren't destroyed by lethal damage, and they ignore the state-based action that checks for lethal damage (see rule 704.5g).

{kalitas, traitor of geth}.
Title: Re: Kalitas vs indestructible
Post by: LinkCelestrial on January 27, 2016, 01:52:46 PM
In irther words, because it's indestructible it wouldn't die so it isn't exiled.
Title: Re: Kalitas vs indestructible
Post by: Thefluffymacheen on January 27, 2016, 03:41:55 PM
Quote from: LinkCelestrial on January 27, 2016, 01:52:46 PM
In irther words, because it's indestructible it wouldn't die so it isn't exiled.
But it can still be killed with sacrifice and -1/-1 counters, in which case Kalitas (or Kletis as my local card shop calls him) would exile the indestructible creature.
Title: Re: Kalitas vs indestructible
Post by: Kaylesh on February 23, 2016, 04:43:46 PM
Quote from: Thefluffymacheen on January 27, 2016, 03:41:55 PM
Quote from: LinkCelestrial on January 27, 2016, 01:52:46 PM
In irther words, because it's indestructible it wouldn't die so it isn't exiled.
But it can still be killed with sacrifice and -1/-1 counters, in which case Kalitas (or Kletis as my local card shop calls him) would exile the indestructible creature.
True. It doesn't add a new way to get rid of it, though.

As an aside, my apologies for my half answer.
Title: Re: Kalitas vs indestructible
Post by: griffin131 on February 24, 2016, 08:46:22 AM
Quote from: Lunis22 on January 27, 2016, 08:13:09 AM
I have noticed that the new set has some new ways of dealing with indestructible. After reading the effect of kalitas, I am confused as to whether his effect is yet another way of doing this. [If a non token creature would die exile it instead.] this to me says that it would work to exile cards that would usually immune to a cards destroy effects due to indestructible. This belief is derived from the fact that other cards that deal with effects of when a card dies does not specify [would die], just simply when this or another creature dies, this action happens. Any thoughts or rulings about this case that I have missed?
To explain the difference, "would die" means that Kalitas' ability is a replacement effect - so the card never hits the graveyard, and the replacement can't be responded to. Importantly, "dies" triggers don't happen.
"Whenever a creature dies" means it's a trigger, so it uses the stack and can be responded to normally. Other "dies" effects can also trigger.