So why not run {Back to Basics} or {Blood Moon} in EDH?
In competitive EDH, go ahead. But, IMO, EDH isn't a format for cards that ruin the game.
What about erratic cards? {Possibility Storm} Or {Yet Another Æther Vortex}(I know its not legal in the format but is a fun example)
Quote from: LinkCelestrial on July 08, 2015, 01:28:05 PM
In competitive EDH, go ahead. But, IMO, EDH isn't a format for cards that ruin the game.
I wouldn't say it "ruins the game" I say it provides a challange... I don't see anything wrong with testing people and trying to have them work around it/deal with problematic permanents.
Quote from: JordanCirk on July 08, 2015, 07:29:39 PM
Quote from: LinkCelestrial on July 08, 2015, 01:28:05 PM
In competitive EDH, go ahead. But, IMO, EDH isn't a format for cards that ruin the game.
I wouldn't say it "ruins the game" I say it provides a challange... I don't see anything wrong with testing people and trying to have them work around it/deal with problematic permanents.
There's a difference between problematic permanents that need to be worked around, say
{Collossus of Akros}
Or
{Propaganda}
And "your deck doesn't work now" cards like
{Blood Moon}
EDH is home to a lot of very cool multicoloured decks. They can't stay usable with a bunch of basics, they need lands that tap for any colour.
And the kicker, the slap in the face, the "why you do dis?"
Some of the hardest to run, and coolest to see decks are 100% colorless. Do you see them often? No. But {Blood Moon} just ruins it.
You can call it a "challenge" but in my books, and experience, it just becomes a "please top deck {Erase}/{Whatever}/my one basic land" or an auto concede. It's not a challenge it's a disaster. And the worst part is, that guy playing {Kamahl, Pit Fighter} isn't even winning. The mono blue player running {Muzzio, Grand Architect} Read: Idgaf what colour my lands are is winning. So when you top deck that {Erase} they laugh maniacally {Cancel} and keep smashing face. Or you get that land and {Acidic Slime} comes down from that mono green player and bam. Back to square one.
"But Linksy!" you say, "I need to top deck {Silence the Belieber's} to deal with that indestructible monstrosity that is {Collossus of Akros}! That's the same as praying for a basic or {Erase}!"
Not true. You see, {Collossus of Akros} can be blocked. (Though not efficiently) You can cast your {Gray Merchant of Asphodel} for over 9000 and win. You can keep playing magic till you get trampled to death by a giant thing that somehow doesn't have reach.
{Blood Moon}? You can't really do anything. You can attack, block. Play more now useless lands...
All this being said {Blood Moon} doesn't always work. It's true. It hasn't been banned, so it's around. I don't even have enough non-basics in any of my commander decks to really care. But at the end of the day my experience in Modern has shown me that {Blood Moon} punishes creativity, not just greedy mana bases. Too often it's {2}{R} you win. Again, it's around for a reason. I just still don't like it and in no way find it challenging.
Maybe this stems from my generally horrible luck. You're talking to affinity full land hand. Then one creature five land hand back to back. Maybe if I could topdeck my {Wear//Tear} I wouldn't mind so much. But still, as a concept I dislike it.
Quote from: LinkCelestrial on July 08, 2015, 08:48:20 PM
Quote from: JordanCirk on July 08, 2015, 07:29:39 PM
Quote from: LinkCelestrial on July 08, 2015, 01:28:05 PM
In competitive EDH, go ahead. But, IMO, EDH isn't a format for cards that ruin the game.
I wouldn't say it "ruins the game" I say it provides a challange... I don't see anything wrong with testing people and trying to have them work around it/deal with problematic permanents.
There's a difference between problematic permanents that need to be worked around, say
{Collossus of Akros}
Or
{Propaganda}
And "your deck doesn't work now" cards like
{Blood Moon}
EDH is home to a lot of very cool multicoloured decks. They can't stay usable with a bunch of basics, they need lands that tap for any colour.
And the kicker, the slap in the face, the "why you do dis?"
Some of the hardest to run, and coolest to see decks are 100% colorless. Do you see them often? No. But {Blood Moon} just ruins it.
You can call it a "challenge" but in my books, and experience, it just becomes a "please top deck {Erase}/{Whatever}/my one basic land" or an auto concede. It's not a challenge it's a disaster. And the worst part is, that guy playing {Kamahl, Pit Fighter} isn't even winning. The mono blue player running {Muzzio, Grand Architect} Read: Idgaf what colour my lands are is winning. So when you top deck that {Erase} they laugh maniacally {Cancel} and keep smashing face. Or you get that land and {Acidic Slime} comes down from that mono green player and bam. Back to square one.
"But Linksy!" you say, "I need to top deck {Silence the Belieber's} to deal with that indestructible monstrosity that is {Collossus of Akros}! That's the same as praying for a basic or {Erase}!"
Not true. You see, {Collossus of Akros} can be blocked. (Though not efficiently) You can cast your {Gray Merchant of Asphodel} for over 9000 and win. You can keep playing magic till you get trampled to death by a giant thing that somehow doesn't have reach.
{Blood Moon}? You can't really do anything. You can attack, block. Play more now useless lands...
All this being said {Blood Moon} doesn't always work. It's true. It hasn't been banned, so it's around. I don't even have enough non-basics in any of my commander decks to really care. But at the end of the day my experience in Modern has shown me that {Blood Moon} punishes creativity, not just greedy mana bases. Too often it's {2}{R} you win. Again, it's around for a reason. I just still don't like it and in no way find it challenging.
Maybe this stems from my generally horrible luck. You're talking to affinity full land hand. Then one creature five land hand back to back. Maybe if I could topdeck my {Wear//Tear} I wouldn't mind so much. But still, as a concept I dislike it.
So I've got to ask, does your play group really have trouble with {colossus of akros} or were you just saying that as an example??
Also, I see your points, and I understand why you don't like the card. I respect that. Personally, it is just another card to deal with to me. I always have some sort of back-up plan to people who run certain cards like that, and to add another point.. All my EDH decks are three-color. all of them run 3 or more of each basic land, just incase.
I've adapted my Modern decks to accommodate. My mana base is 80% need 20% I don't want to lose to blood kind.
A {Colossus of Akros} can be really brutal.
Colorless generals typically don't care about Blood Moon or Back to Basics.
Sure, Moon shuts off the utility part of the utility lands, but it's not like I can't play magic.
B2B doesn't hurt because most colorless generals run a bunch of rocks anyway.
2 very competitive decks I played against tonight had a majority of basic lands - Maelstrom Wanderer and Karametra.
As long as one of the 3 colors is green, running a majority of basics doesn't really hurt.
My play group there is no restrictions on cards except for {Possibility Storm} with {Eidolon of Rhetoric} And like ... That an instant count your deck most cards wins deal
As far as blood moon, in the format someone is running blue and someone is running green so it'll either not hit the field or die soon enough so there isn't that big a deal
wtf no possibility storm? yall are babies
edit:
possibility storm, descendants path, and slivers?! how fun is that!
http://imtgapp.com/forum/index.php?topic=42816.15
How about {possibility storm}, {hive mind}, {confusion in the ranks} and more chaos than in a typical unglued deck?
http://imtgapp.com/forum/index.php?topic=47333.0