4 {Halimar Depths}
9 {Plains}
13 {Island}
26 lands
2 {Jace's Mindseeker}
2 {Prognostic Sphinx}
4 creatures
3 {Jace, Architect of Thought}
2 {Dig Through Time}
4 {Dispel}
4 {Dissipate}
4 {Cancel}
4 {End Hostilities}
2 {Font of Fortunes}
2 {Divination}
2 {Devouring Light}
3 {Jace's Ingenuity}
30 other spells
Sideboard
Notes:
Card advantage, counters, ands planeswalker with ability to skry and also to steal opponent options
|
Counters??? I only really see 1
Too many wincons. If your deck is working you don't really need {Blazing Archon}.
thank you both for the advise. I think I am going to go down to only 2 creatures total. Ad 3 Cancels and 3 dissolves. I'm new to playing this type of deck and am not use to using counters. Any suggestions on which ones to add?
Thanks again.
The elspeths you have are only good if you have a lot of creatures. Unless you feel like making your deck more of a token deck, which I know a few cards that can help you with that if you wanna go there, get rid of those elspeths. Another white Planeswalker should replace it, as the only decent blue planeswalkers are Jace, the Mindsculptor, and the one from Avacyn Restored, which I think got a reprint, but are still both expensive. Your three choices for white planeswalkers are Ajani, Elspeth, or Gideon. I'll go through them now and I'll pick out the best of them for your deck at the moment. Remember, unless you want to make a token deck, don't put in higher costing cards that do things to ALL creatures, as you only plan to have two.
Ok I believe your four options (if you want planeswalkers) would be Gideon, Champion of Justice; Elspeth, Knight Errant; and Ajani Steadfast. I personally advise Elspeth, as it makes most of the stuff you have on the field indestructible. I'm ruling out Ajani Goldmane, as your deck isn't life gain.
Thank you for the help I will decently replace my planeswalker. Do you think I should get a playset or go with a smaller amount and throw in a couple more counters?
Thanks again.
Well it depends. You can either get 4 of a Planeswalker, or get 2 of two different ones. At this point you probably want to keep your blue stuff over getting tokens. The second best would be Gideon, as he exiles all other permanents, and then you can make him a creature. Ajani Steadfast might be better then Gideon however, as it does have an ability that prevents all but 1 damage to you or any Planeswalker you control, while Gideon high ability IS costly. When we finish up with this Planeswalker deal, I can help you out with your blue cards, as I do have a blue deck too.
If you're playing control, I suggest {Gideon Jura}. However, he isn't standard, and if you wanted to, you could make this deck standard with only a few changes.
-{Radiant Fountain}
+More plains and Islands
-{Blazing Archon}
+Whatever creature looks good to you in this spot.
-{Oblivion Ring}
+{Banishing Light}
Isn't he expensive though? That's why I didn't include him.
Quote from: Coolie2 on July 06, 2015, 01:30:05 PM
Isn't he expensive though? That's why I didn't include him.
He's only $5.05 at the time of this post.
Hmm. Wonder why I thought that...
There's two reasons why a Planeswalker that can go in my deck wouldn't be in it. The first is that it's too expensive, which is why I thought that it was. When looking at the card however, I realized its number two. Gideon Jura isn't that good of a Planeswalker, at least in my opinion. I mean, the only decent ability is destroying creatures.
Quote from: Coolie2 on July 06, 2015, 02:25:07 PM
There's two reasons why a Planeswalker that can go in my deck wouldn't be in it. The first is that it's too expensive, which is why I thought that it was. When looking at the card however, I realized its number two. Gideon Jura isn't that good of a Planeswalker, at least in my opinion. I mean, the only decent ability is destroying creatures.
+2:Draw fire from yourself, tap all your opponent's creatures, set up profitable blocks.
-2:Kill any problematic creature, especially in conjunction with the +2.
0:Beat with a 6/6 every turn he has no creatures out.
Seems good to me.
Quote from: Splicer on July 06, 2015, 03:01:37 PM
Quote from: Coolie2 on July 06, 2015, 02:25:07 PM
There's two reasons why a Planeswalker that can go in my deck wouldn't be in it. The first is that it's too expensive, which is why I thought that it was. When looking at the card however, I realized its number two. Gideon Jura isn't that good of a Planeswalker, at least in my opinion. I mean, the only decent ability is destroying creatures.
+2:Draw fire from yourself, tap all your opponent's creatures, set up profitable blocks.
-2:Kill any problematic creature, especially in conjunction with the +2.
0:Beat with a 6/6 every turn he has no creatures out.
Seems good to me.
+2 Kill Gideon Jura
-2 Kill a Non Indestructible Creature
0 Make Gideon Jura an overpriced creature for a turn
There's different ways of seeing it :P
{Elspeth, Sun's Champion} wins games. She is amazing. I'd personally only run ~2 though because she costs a lot of mana. Maybe another in the SB for slower games.
Three 1/1s every turn stacks up really fast. Trust me.
I'd personally run 1 {Pearl Lake Ancient} and one {Prognostic Sphinx}. Maybe an additional {Pearl Lake Ancient}.
I'd drop the {Fated Retribution}. It's too expensive.
I'd suggest cutting some {Font of Fortunes} and {Divination} for {Dig Through Time} and/or {Treasure Cruise}. They're way better in this shell.
I'm not personally a fan of {Jace's Ingenuity}.
But if Suns Champion is used then it would need to be more of token deck
I'm going to post a revised version of the deck I have so far. I have based it around all of your recommendations and what cards I currently have in my collection.
Thanks for your help. I'll post it in a few.
I decided to go with 4 creatures instead of only 2.
Quote from: Coolie2 on July 06, 2015, 03:23:56 PM
But if Suns Champion is used then it would need to be more of token deck
You'd think that but no. In a control deck {Elspeth, Sun's Champion}'s job is to win you the game, and she does.
Quote from: LinkCelestrial on July 06, 2015, 03:51:27 PM
Quote from: Coolie2 on July 06, 2015, 03:23:56 PM
But if Suns Champion is used then it would need to be more of token deck
You'd think that but no. In a control deck {Elspeth, Sun's Champion}'s job is to win you the game, and she does.
Agreed.
Quote from: LinkCelestrial on July 06, 2015, 03:51:27 PM
Quote from: Coolie2 on July 06, 2015, 03:23:56 PM
But if Suns Champion is used then it would need to be more of token deck
You'd think that but no. In a control deck {Elspeth, Sun's Champion}'s job is to win you the game, and she does.
Thank you link... A control deck controls and need a way too win and wo it becomes a "53" Turn game with no results but counter destroy bounce repeat and finally draw the last Card in your deck
Imo if this is casual go creature less wo elspeth for the win with no creatures you have more room and have more tricks (wat is control wo tricks?)
And don't do cancel try {dissipate}!!!
Also {Absorb}.
And if you want to run Planeswalkers there's,
{Elspeth, Sun's Champion}, while the mana cost is high the impact she has on the game can't be understated. In control you will probably hit 6 mana and then she protects you, herself, and starts closing out the game. Her ult is highly irrelevant but there if you need it. All in all very solid.
{Elspeth, Knight Errant}, Cheaper than her other incarnation, but not as good. Her alternate plus can be nice for dodging through defenders, but her ult is generally a win-more.
We'll glaze over {Elspeth Tirrel} as she's not a truely viable control card.
{Jace Beleren}: Very sub optimal. You don't really want your opponent to draw cards, his -1 is good, but his ult isn't. Baby Jace isn't my idea of a good control card. It is, however, pretty solid in Turbo Fog.
{Jace, Architect of Thought}: IMO the best control Jace. Sponge damage, draw cards, steal stuff /and/ cast whatever you want? A very solid pick.
{Jace, Memory Adept}: What really makes this card is the 0. I honestly have had a lot of games where I never plused him. IMO JAoT is better but this is still very solid.
{Jace, the Living Guildpact}: This Jace has two things going for it. {Logic Knot}, and a game crushing ult. Neither of which outclass other versions but at $3 who can complain? I can because JAoT is like the same price! But I digress.
{Jace, the Mind Sculptor}: Revered. If you have one, use it. Otherwise that price tag is a pretty big turn off.
{Tamiyo, the Moon Sage}: Targeted fog, situation card draw (ultra synergies with {Gideon Jura}) and a "86% chance of I win" ult make her a solid and underrated pick, constantly living in Jace's shadow. The only reason I don't run her in Superfriends is she's basically {Kiora, the Crashing Wave} and Kiora fits better in my Superfriends deck.
{Gideon Jura}: MVP. He may not look that good, but he is /that good/. Your opponent could be attacking you with {The Death Star}, but if you've got a Gideon out you will see another turn. He can sponge anything. And if he sticks around and isn't too beat up you can do it again, or kill something. Empty board? Turn him into a creature and smash face. My only regret is that I can't always run him alongside {Venser, the Sojourner} and {Doubling Season}.
{Gideon, Champion of Justice}: Next to the other version this is just...bad. His +1 is good sometimes but you're a control deck so it shouldn't be good unless you're already losing. The 0 is only good when his +1 is good but then he's probably just going to get blocked, killing his blocker and making his +1 worse. His ult sounds good but it exiles all your stuff too. Sure he'll be the only thing on the board but then he's not going to be very big cause you know, you just -15'd. All this being said, he's fun to use. If your opponent has a few creatures out he can be really hard to kill, and unlike {Gideon Jura} he shines in multiplayer.
{Narset Transcendent}: +1 maybe draw a card and if you do show everyone. -2 can be really good with wipes or card draw. But usually meh. The ult is a you win vs other control decks and such. IMO she's a solid SB card for the mirror and such.
{Venser, the Sojourner}: +2 blink something. Usually it just untaps a land. The -1 isn't really relevant as you either don't have creatures or they're already evasive. The ult is AMAZING but it doesn't have a may clause so...where Venser really shines is alongside other Planeswalkers. Bouncing them to reset counters is fantastic. IMO he's really suboptimal outside of Superfriends.
Hopefully this will help. I run a Bant Superfriends list and it's by far my favourite deck for cool factors. You'll probably want to run 2-6 (max) Planeswalkers if any.
Again as I said about not having many creatures, something like venser sojourners lovely -1 ability should only be used with lots of creatures, but since they're so insistent about Suns champion working to make ur field creature heavy, then mybe venser and Elspeth might be a decent combo for this situation? You use Elspeth, strengthen up the tokens, use venser so they're unblock able for a turn, and you win.
Quote from: CbStrad on July 07, 2015, 10:50:39 AM
Quote from: Coolie2 on July 06, 2015, 03:14:50 PM
Quote from: Splicer on July 06, 2015, 03:01:37 PM
Quote from: Coolie2 on July 06, 2015, 02:25:07 PM
There's two reasons why a Planeswalker that can go in my deck wouldn't be in it. The first is that it's too expensive, which is why I thought that it was. When looking at the card however, I realized its number two. Gideon Jura isn't that good of a Planeswalker, at least in my opinion. I mean, the only decent ability is destroying creatures.
+2:Draw fire from yourself, tap all your opponent's creatures, set up profitable blocks.
-2:Kill any problematic creature, especially in conjunction with the +2.
0:Beat with a 6/6 every turn he has no creatures out.
Seems good to me.
+2 Kill Gideon Jura
-2 Kill a Non Indestructible Creature
0 Make Gideon Jura an overpriced creature for a turn
There's different ways of seeing it :P
The +2 will rarely kill. Keep in mind, he'll have - bare minimum - 8 counters when he pops that first time. Good control makes sure your opponent has little creature presence to begin with.
The -2 kills a non-indestructible creature. If your meta has so much indestructible that you whine about the -2 not hitting them, fine, but otherwise your argument's weak.
As for the 0, Gids is a five-cost. Five mana. 6/6. Overpriced? Hardly.
You, mon frére, have much to learn
Edit: Link beat me to it
The majority of decks usually have a couple strong creatures, so if anything on the other side can kill Gideon, you're just evading loss. The only good thing with this is the tapping of all the opponent's creatures without vigilance, which in this case, none of the enemy's creatures need to have vigilance. Without enough creatures to defeat the opponent while all of his or her creatures are tapped, Gideon would be wasted. And sure, the 6/6 Gideon is good, but you can't use him to block the opponent's creatures, as he only lasts your turn. In order for the ability to truly be good, you would have to use that ability every turn, making him less good. I get your point, and while I am being a bit harsh on Gideon here, there are definitely better planeswalkers to pick.
If anything on the opposing side has 8 power, and it stuck around, you should be more worried about the quality of your control deck.
But all of the opposing creatures Attack, so only the combination of them has to be greater than eight, and in a token deck that would be easy
Quote from: Coolie2 on July 07, 2015, 12:02:51 PM
But all of the opposing creatures Attack, so only the combination of them has to be greater than eight, and in a token deck that would be easy
Wrath? Besides, how many token decks are out there anyway? Modern and sometimes standard are the only formats they show up in, and in casual people do whatever they want.
Are you saying that I'm the only person on earth who uses tokens in casual? Casual just gives people the freedom to use tokens more uncontrollably. Why wouldn't people use them in decks all the time?
Quote from: Coolie2 on July 07, 2015, 12:48:26 PM
Are you saying that I'm the only person on earth who uses tokens in casual? Casual just gives people the freedom to use tokens more uncontrollably. Why wouldn't people use them in decks all the time?
Listen, I don't mean to offend you, but your deck is not the only deck he should be comparing to. It's casual. Anyone can run anything.
IK. I'm just giving a situation. My deck doesn't matter in this situation. Tokens don't even matter. But let's just say that there were a deck, not a token deck, but a deck with tons of creatures, that manages to get creatures with an attack and block score of 10/10, even after a few are eliminated by cards from his deck. I'm just wondering what this situation would bring. Not trying to be rude ✌️
Quote from: Coolie2 on July 07, 2015, 02:26:20 PM
IK. I'm just giving a situation. My deck doesn't matter in this situation. Tokens don't even matter. But let's just say that there were a deck, not a token deck, but a deck with tons of creatures, that manages to get creatures with an attack and block score of 10/10, even after a few are eliminated by cards from his deck. I'm just wondering what this situation would bring. Not trying to be rude ✌️
In said situation, aggro wins, control loses. If you get a 10/10 to stick against a deck that runs 2 creatures, you are not gonna gun that at the PW. I'd get it double strike to get it over with...
Yes, I was being rude as well. I apoligize.
For a case like that, control players run wraths. {Supreme Verdict}, {Wrath Of God}, {Final Judgement}, and etc. can help along with Gideon, clearing a board and swinging for 6 a turn while thy rebuild their board state is really good.
So let's say that your opponent does have a 10/10. You play Gideon, +2, let's say you don't even do anything else and pass.
Your opponent untaps, draws, smashes Gideon into oblivion and passes.
What did Gideon do for you? He gained you 10 life. For 5 mana? Not too good. But this is worst case scenario. It's almost a {Time Walk}.
If he sticks around he can keep almost {Time Walk}ing. And that is why he's good. I can understand where you're coming from in your evaluation of Gideon. I truly do. Sometimes he just bites the dust, it happens. But in doing so he saves you 8+ health. Like any Planeswalker he's best when he sticks around. But there's a reason I run three in my Superfriends and have been hunting some IRL copies. Try him on untap a few time. If you still don't like him, fair enough. But I think you'll be pleasantly surprised.
Ok. I do think we have spent a bit too much time talking about these planeswalkers. I think he should just pick his single or two planeswalkers and get on with it. We should probs start talking about his blue cards.
Thanks again to everyone for their suggestions and their opinions. I made a few more changes. I think this one fits what I am trying to accomplish strategy wise.
Np. Need more help just say so. I advise you test your improved deck with someone once you think ur done
I've been playing some test play with an aggro deck I have and it has played really well against it and it's a pretty strong insect based deck. I think i will have the most difficulty with a really fast deck with a lot of 1 and 2 drops and haste. Not really much i can think to do about it just hope I can wait out the early onslaught and get some creatures off the battlefield.
I've been playing some test play with an aggro deck I have and it has played really well against it and it's a pretty strong insect based deck. I think i will have the most difficulty with a really fast deck with a lot of 1 and 2 drops and haste. Not really much i can think to do about it just hope I can wait out the early onslaught and get some creatures off the battlefield.
Expensive
If I were including cards that were cheap enough to reasonably add to a deck, I would've included freakin Karn
Quote from: Jkanedrummond1990 on July 07, 2015, 09:54:24 PM
I've been playing some test play with an aggro deck I have and it has played really well against it and it's a pretty strong insect based deck. I think i will have the most difficulty with a really fast deck with a lot of 1 and 2 drops and haste. Not really much i can think to do about it just hope I can wait out the early onslaught and get some creatures off the battlefield.
{Supreme verdict} and {Wrath of God} are invaluable to help you against this.
Quote from: Splicer on July 07, 2015, 10:36:43 PM
Quote from: Jkanedrummond1990 on July 07, 2015, 09:54:24 PM
I've been playing some test play with an aggro deck I have and it has played really well against it and it's a pretty strong insect based deck. I think i will have the most difficulty with a really fast deck with a lot of 1 and 2 drops and haste. Not really much i can think to do about it just hope I can wait out the early onslaught and get some creatures off the battlefield.
{Supreme verdict} and {Wrath of God} are invaluable to help you against this.
Maybe also {Path to Exile} It can get you to mid/late game where you want to be bc most fast aggro decks don't far wellin late game
Quote from: MommaB on July 07, 2015, 11:00:02 PM
Quote from: Splicer on July 07, 2015, 10:36:43 PM
Quote from: Jkanedrummond1990 on July 07, 2015, 09:54:24 PM
I've been playing some test play with an aggro deck I have and it has played really well against it and it's a pretty strong insect based deck. I think i will have the most difficulty with a really fast deck with a lot of 1 and 2 drops and haste. Not really much i can think to do about it just hope I can wait out the early onslaught and get some creatures off the battlefield.
{Supreme verdict} and {Wrath of God} are invaluable to help you against this.
Maybe also {Path to Exile} It can get you to mid/late game where you want to be bc most fast aggro decks don't far wellin late game
Since this is casual, {swords to plowshares} is very arguably a better version of Path, and I believe it's cheaper.
Quote from: Ekann1 on July 08, 2015, 07:10:58 AM
Quote from: MommaB on July 07, 2015, 11:00:02 PM
Quote from: Splicer on July 07, 2015, 10:36:43 PM
Quote from: Jkanedrummond1990 on July 07, 2015, 09:54:24 PM
I've been playing some test play with an aggro deck I have and it has played really well against it and it's a pretty strong insect based deck. I think i will have the most difficulty with a really fast deck with a lot of 1 and 2 drops and haste. Not really much i can think to do about it just hope I can wait out the early onslaught and get some creatures off the battlefield.
{Supreme verdict} and {Wrath of God} are invaluable to help you against this.
Maybe also {Path to Exile} It can get you to mid/late game where you want to be bc most fast aggro decks don't far wellin late game
Since this is casual, {swords to plowshares} is very arguably a better version of Path, and I believe it's cheaper.
Very true lol
Quote from: MommaB on July 08, 2015, 07:42:09 AM
Quote from: Ekann1 on July 08, 2015, 07:10:58 AM
Quote from: MommaB on July 07, 2015, 11:00:02 PM
Quote from: Splicer on July 07, 2015, 10:36:43 PM
Quote from: Jkanedrummond1990 on July 07, 2015, 09:54:24 PM
I've been playing some test play with an aggro deck I have and it has played really well against it and it's a pretty strong insect based deck. I think i will have the most difficulty with a really fast deck with a lot of 1 and 2 drops and haste. Not really much i can think to do about it just hope I can wait out the early onslaught and get some creatures off the battlefield.
{Supreme verdict} and {Wrath of God} are invaluable to help you against this.
Maybe also {Path to Exile} It can get you to mid/late game where you want to be bc most fast aggro decks don't far wellin late game
Since this is casual, {swords to plowshares} is very arguably a better version of Path, and I believe it's cheaper.
Very true lol
Wow. Strictly worse modern staple is more expensive then legacy staple. Wouldn't have guessed that...