What are some cards that you think would be good to unban from Modern or Legacy? What are cards that you think would be disastrous?
For modern, I think it would be fine to unban {Jace The Mind Sculptor}, but awful to unban {sensei's divining top}.
I think {Jace, the Mindscultpor} should get unbanned in Modern. {Deathrite Shaman} should stay banned in modern...
I feel like {preordain} should be unbanned in modern (followed by a ban of splinter twin to force them to use Kiki jiki) {jace the mind sculptor} should probably stay banned IMO. They need to make control a deck, but that just makes twin (or Kiki combo if I had my way) and other random blue decks way too good.
Modern Unban:
{Jace, the Mind Sculptor}
{Stoneforge Mystic}
{Seething Song}
{Deathrite Shaman}
{Bloodbraid Elf}
{Birthing Pod}
{Ancestral Vision}
{Sensei's Divining Top}
{Preordain}
{Dread Return}
That might even make me want to play modern.
Legacy Unban:
{Black Vice}
{Mind Twist}
{Goblin Recruiter}
{Frantic Search}
Stoneforge would be spooky in modern. And if it ever got unbanned, it may well be a $100 card....
Quote from: ConanEdo on June 10, 2015, 11:47:07 AM
Quote from: ihasfrozen on June 10, 2015, 09:35:17 AM
Modern Unban:
{Jace, the Mind Sculptor}
{Stoneforge Mystic}
{Seething Song}
{Deathrite Shaman}
{Bloodbraid Elf}
{Birthing Pod}
{Ancestral Vision}
{Sensei's Divining Top}
{Preordain}
{Dread Return}
That might even make me want to play modern.
Legacy Unban:
{Black Vice}
{Mind Twist}
{Goblin Recruiter}
{Frantic Search}
No on goblin recruiter, have you seen a newb try to make that pile? It's awful.
As for modern banlist, in banning DRS, BBE, SFM, Top, and Jace means you'll have a two-deck format tops. There's a Jund deck and a miracles/Stoneblade deck. Pod may be a thing, but I doubt it can out value Jund. Dread return might get you a Dredge deck, but you're missing the cards to make it a grindy deck like {Nether Shadow}.
I want to believe people can make recruiter piles in a reasonable amount of time, but you're probably right.
I think {Dread Return} is pretty safe without {Ichorid} and {Cabal Therapy}. The worst I could see is a deck coming out of it, but nothing busted.
I'm not sold on Jace and Stoneforge busting things without Jitte. I really just want Bloodbraid and Deathrite back to let me live the Jund dream again.
Well, the thing about Dread Return... Grave-Troll was recently unbanned. There are already a few Dredge Reanimator lists running around that wins off of using Unburial Rites on something bit, like Iona. Adding Dread return back in means +4 Returns, +4 Narcomoeba and that deck becomes an actual, insane deck.
That could actually be hilarious to see happen.
The problem with jace is that he brainstorms. All cards with similar effects have been banned.
Surprised no dig thru time for modern here...
But srsly tho: bring back ante, I would be running demonic attorney all day
Why not unban {sword of the meek}
IMO there are two options. Unban,
{Birthing Pod}
{Bloodbraid Elf}
{Deathright Shaman}
{Dread Return}
{Stoneforge Mystic}
{Sensei's Divining Top}
{Jace, the Mind Sculptor}
And /maybe/ {Preordain}, {Ponder}, {Seething Song} and {Rite of Flame}.
The intention here is that Pod would be back, Jund, Reanimator, Mono {W} Equipment variants and Storm (I hate playing with/against Storm as it's more one person watching the other try not to screw up math) would get a buff and Miracles as well as Caw-Blade variants and maybe control would become things.
The idea here is that no one deck gets all the power. It's spread around to make viable, powerful decks with some diversity.
But I don't really agree with that idea. It makes Modern look like Legacy. If it happened I wouldn't quit Modern (though I might be pissed if I actually played with cards instead of via Untap.In) but I feel like there'd be something lost.
The other option is to do pretty much nothing.
IMO {Birthing Pod} didn't need to be banned. It wasn't a dominate deck. Then again I didn't play "competitive" magic during its time.
Why is {Sword of the Meek} banned?
{Time Seive}, {Thopter Foundry}, {Sword of the Meek}, 5 mana
LAST EDIT. You sac sword to foundry, and you attach the sword to the created token, 5 times, extra turn
Quote from: FlickerYourOwnIdentity on June 10, 2015, 03:15:00 PM
{Time Seive}, {Thopter Foundry}, {Sword of the Meek}, 5 mana
LAST EDIT. You sac sword to foundry, and you attach the sword to the created token, 5 times, extra turn
A six mana three card investment with an additional five mana needed to make it run? Doesn't seem ban worthy to me when there's still Twin, Scapeshift and Bloodcrank.
Quote from: ConanEdo on June 10, 2015, 03:56:59 PM
Quote from: LinkCelestrial on June 10, 2015, 03:54:41 PM
Quote from: FlickerYourOwnIdentity on June 10, 2015, 03:15:00 PM
{Time Seive}, {Thopter Foundry}, {Sword of the Meek}, 5 mana
LAST EDIT. You sac sword to foundry, and you attach the sword to the created token, 5 times, extra turn
A six mana three card investment with an additional five mana needed to make it run? Doesn't seem ban worthy to me when there's still Twin, Scapeshift and Bloodcrank.
You don't need time sieve, just thopter foundry/sword. If they have none way to interact, you put the game out of reach in 2-3 turns tops.
Good point...
Quote from: ConanEdo on June 10, 2015, 03:58:26 PM
Quote from: MuggyWuggy on June 10, 2015, 01:38:30 PM
Surprised no dig thru time for modern here...
But srsly tho: bring back ante, I would be running demonic attorney all day
Dig needs to be banned in legacy. The density of Omnitell is obscene. 4 BS, 4 Ponder, 4 Pre, 4 Probe, 4 Dig, it's just absurd watching it go.
It's super powerful but I don't think it's oppressive.
I also think that {Dig Through Time} should be banned in legacy, it's a bad card for the format.
Quote from: Taysby on June 10, 2015, 04:37:31 PM
Back to modern, recently channelfireball did an analysis and they found that on average each deck has a 50% chance of winning. There is no "best deck" at the moment. It depends on your skill level, so I'd call that good.
Imo, I'd like twin to get a light nerf because i'm tired of them mulling to 4 and still winning turn 4, having the game be stalled out then they're like "oh look at this top card i ripped off turn 27. I win". It's really freaking annoying how they are just like, I win. :P
{Rakdos Charm}. Yeah, I know it's not really playable but it's funny.
Quote from: LinkCelestrial on June 10, 2015, 06:24:11 PM
Quote from: Taysby on June 10, 2015, 04:37:31 PM
Back to modern, recently channelfireball did an analysis and they found that on average each deck has a 50% chance of winning. There is no "best deck" at the moment. It depends on your skill level, so I'd call that good.
Imo, I'd like twin to get a light nerf because i'm tired of them mulling to 4 and still winning turn 4, having the game be stalled out then they're like "oh look at this top card i ripped off turn 27. I win". It's really freaking annoying how they are just like, I win. :P
{Rakdos Charm}. Yeah, I know it's not really playable but it's funny.
I love Rakdos charm.
Quote from: Taysby on June 10, 2015, 07:36:21 PM
Quote from: Munchlax on June 10, 2015, 07:35:05 PM
Quote from: LinkCelestrial on June 10, 2015, 06:24:11 PM
Quote from: Taysby on June 10, 2015, 04:37:31 PM
Back to modern, recently channelfireball did an analysis and they found that on average each deck has a 50% chance of winning. There is no "best deck" at the moment. It depends on your skill level, so I'd call that good.
Imo, I'd like twin to get a light nerf because i'm tired of them mulling to 4 and still winning turn 4, having the game be stalled out then they're like "oh look at this top card i ripped off turn 27. I win". It's really freaking annoying how they are just like, I win. :P
{Rakdos Charm}. Yeah, I know it's not really playable but it's funny.
I love Rakdos charm.
Then they have a {remand} up...
Not if its t4
Quote from: Munchlax on June 10, 2015, 08:53:42 PM
Quote from: Taysby on June 10, 2015, 07:36:21 PM
Quote from: Munchlax on June 10, 2015, 07:35:05 PM
Quote from: LinkCelestrial on June 10, 2015, 06:24:11 PM
Quote from: Taysby on June 10, 2015, 04:37:31 PM
Back to modern, recently channelfireball did an analysis and they found that on average each deck has a 50% chance of winning. There is no "best deck" at the moment. It depends on your skill level, so I'd call that good.
Imo, I'd like twin to get a light nerf because i'm tired of them mulling to 4 and still winning turn 4, having the game be stalled out then they're like "oh look at this top card i ripped off turn 27. I win". It's really freaking annoying how they are just like, I win. :P
{Rakdos Charm}. Yeah, I know it's not really playable but it's funny.
I love Rakdos charm.
Then they have a {remand} up...
Not if its t4
So they put it back in your hand and you recast it. This is why {Remand} sucks.
http://youtu.be/gYrslokS2Ac
Here's a video my friend made about unbanning Jace in Modern.
{Bloodbraid Elf} Seems ok to be unbanned.
I would like to see {Birthing Pod} Unbanned so I can play Kiki Pod again.
Quote from: Potticus on June 10, 2015, 09:02:25 PM
Quote from: LinkCelestrial on June 10, 2015, 08:54:47 PM
Quote from: Munchlax on June 10, 2015, 08:53:42 PM
Quote from: Taysby on June 10, 2015, 07:36:21 PM
Quote from: Munchlax on June 10, 2015, 07:35:05 PM
Quote from: LinkCelestrial on June 10, 2015, 06:24:11 PM
Quote from: Taysby on June 10, 2015, 04:37:31 PM
Back to modern, recently channelfireball did an analysis and they found that on average each deck has a 50% chance of winning. There is no "best deck" at the moment. It depends on your skill level, so I'd call that good.
Imo, I'd like twin to get a light nerf because i'm tired of them mulling to 4 and still winning turn 4, having the game be stalled out then they're like "oh look at this top card i ripped off turn 27. I win". It's really freaking annoying how they are just like, I win. :P
{Rakdos Charm}. Yeah, I know it's not really playable but it's funny.
I love Rakdos charm.
Then they have a {remand} up...
Not if its t4
So they put it back in your hand and you recast it. This is why {Remand} sucks.
Lol remand does not suck, it's fantastic tempo. Causes mana sinks and draws/thins a deck.
I know it's a good tempo card, I'm not denying that. But it is a horrible countrol card. It stalls, doesn't stop. If you can win with a stall, awesome. Run it. If you can't?
Quote from: LinkCelestrial on June 10, 2015, 11:56:54 PM
Quote from: Potticus on June 10, 2015, 09:02:25 PM
Quote from: LinkCelestrial on June 10, 2015, 08:54:47 PM
Quote from: Munchlax on June 10, 2015, 08:53:42 PM
Quote from: Taysby on June 10, 2015, 07:36:21 PM
Quote from: Munchlax on June 10, 2015, 07:35:05 PM
Quote from: LinkCelestrial on June 10, 2015, 06:24:11 PM
Quote from: Taysby on June 10, 2015, 04:37:31 PM
Back to modern, recently channelfireball did an analysis and they found that on average each deck has a 50% chance of winning. There is no "best deck" at the moment. It depends on your skill level, so I'd call that good.
Imo, I'd like twin to get a light nerf because i'm tired of them mulling to 4 and still winning turn 4, having the game be stalled out then they're like "oh look at this top card i ripped off turn 27. I win". It's really freaking annoying how they are just like, I win. :P
{Rakdos Charm}. Yeah, I know it's not really playable but it's funny.
I love Rakdos charm.
Then they have a {remand} up...
Not if its t4
So they put it back in your hand and you recast it. This is why {Remand} sucks.
Lol remand does not suck, it's fantastic tempo. Causes mana sinks and draws/thins a deck.
I know it's a good tempo card, I'm not denying that. But it is a horrible countrol card. It stalls, doesn't stop. If you can win with a stall, awesome. Run it. If you can't?
Correct me if I'm wrong, but isn't that why many decks run {Pact of Negation} or, Tron decks, {Condescend} as well as {Remand}? I haven't seen many decks that only run Remands. I can't say much else than that. I'm just getting into learning about Modern decks.
Quote from: Deebiia on June 11, 2015, 12:06:28 AM
Quote from: LinkCelestrial on June 10, 2015, 11:56:54 PM
Quote from: Potticus on June 10, 2015, 09:02:25 PM
Quote from: LinkCelestrial on June 10, 2015, 08:54:47 PM
Quote from: Munchlax on June 10, 2015, 08:53:42 PM
Quote from: Taysby on June 10, 2015, 07:36:21 PM
Quote from: Munchlax on June 10, 2015, 07:35:05 PM
Quote from: LinkCelestrial on June 10, 2015, 06:24:11 PM
Quote from: Taysby on June 10, 2015, 04:37:31 PM
Back to modern, recently channelfireball did an analysis and they found that on average each deck has a 50% chance of winning. There is no "best deck" at the moment. It depends on your skill level, so I'd call that good.
Imo, I'd like twin to get a light nerf because i'm tired of them mulling to 4 and still winning turn 4, having the game be stalled out then they're like "oh look at this top card i ripped off turn 27. I win". It's really freaking annoying how they are just like, I win. :P
{Rakdos Charm}. Yeah, I know it's not really playable but it's funny.
I love Rakdos charm.
Then they have a {remand} up...
Not if its t4
So they put it back in your hand and you recast it. This is why {Remand} sucks.
Lol remand does not suck, it's fantastic tempo. Causes mana sinks and draws/thins a deck.
I know it's a good tempo card, I'm not denying that. But it is a horrible countrol card. It stalls, doesn't stop. If you can win with a stall, awesome. Run it. If you can't?
Correct me if I'm wrong, but isn't that why many decks run {Pact of Negation} or, Tron decks, {Condescend} as well as {Remand}? I haven't seen many decks that only run Remands. I can't say much else than that. I'm just getting into learning about Modern decks.
Yah they're just a stalling card used in mostly combo decks. They're good for what they're used for. Saying remand is bad because all it does is stall is like saying Cranial Plating is bad because it only works if you have artifacts out. It serves it's purpose in decks meant to run it. It shuts down big spells, allows a card draw(which in twin is a key element to get that combo piece), and sets your opponent basically back a turn. Most decks only run them
As a two of anyways :)
I would like to see {lightning bolt} banned in modern and legacy for just a short period of time. It is ran in most of the top decks. And it would be interesting to see the formats without it.
Ban brainstorm would be awful
Quote from: MuggyWuggy on June 11, 2015, 01:10:08 PM
Ban brainstorm would be awful
Yeah, I don't know if I'd want to keep playing legacy without {Brainstorm}.
Thoughtseize? Brainstorm in response, fill hand w nonsense, let opponent discard a weaker choice
So sexy
BS, shardless agent - pick your perk :)
Mana screwed? Brain storm.
I just love it, never said you said to ban it :)
It would be terribly sad for anyone who plays blue in legacy.
What about DRS for modern - is he still too OP?
Quote from: Codester1991 on June 11, 2015, 12:31:27 AM
Quote from: Deebiia on June 11, 2015, 12:06:28 AM
Quote from: LinkCelestrial on June 10, 2015, 11:56:54 PM
Quote from: Potticus on June 10, 2015, 09:02:25 PM
Quote from: LinkCelestrial on June 10, 2015, 08:54:47 PM
Quote from: Munchlax on June 10, 2015, 08:53:42 PM
Quote from: Taysby on June 10, 2015, 07:36:21 PM
Quote from: Munchlax on June 10, 2015, 07:35:05 PM
Quote from: LinkCelestrial on June 10, 2015, 06:24:11 PM
Quote from: Taysby on June 10, 2015, 04:37:31 PM
Back to modern, recently channelfireball did an analysis and they found that on average each deck has a 50% chance of winning. There is no "best deck" at the moment. It depends on your skill level, so I'd call that good.
Imo, I'd like twin to get a light nerf because i'm tired of them mulling to 4 and still winning turn 4, having the game be stalled out then they're like "oh look at this top card i ripped off turn 27. I win". It's really freaking annoying how they are just like, I win. :P
{Rakdos Charm}. Yeah, I know it's not really playable but it's funny.
I love Rakdos charm.
Then they have a {remand} up...
Not if its t4
So they put it back in your hand and you recast it. This is why {Remand} sucks.
Lol remand does not suck, it's fantastic tempo. Causes mana sinks and draws/thins a deck.
I know it's a good tempo card, I'm not denying that. But it is a horrible countrol card. It stalls, doesn't stop. If you can win with a stall, awesome. Run it. If you can't?
Correct me if I'm wrong, but isn't that why many decks run {Pact of Negation} or, Tron decks, {Condescend} as well as {Remand}? I haven't seen many decks that only run Remands. I can't say much else than that. I'm just getting into learning about Modern decks.
Yah they're just a stalling card used in mostly combo decks. They're good for what they're used for. Saying remand is bad because all it does is stall is like saying Cranial Plating is bad because it only works if you have artifacts out. It serves it's purpose in decks meant to run it. It shuts down big spells, allows a card draw(which in twin is a key element to get that combo piece), and sets your opponent basically back a turn. Most decks only run them
As a two of anyways :)
I'm not saying it's bad because it's a stall. I'm saying people need to stop telling me to run it in my control decks. xD
Quote from: LinkCelestrial on June 11, 2015, 02:53:02 PM
Quote from: Codester1991 on June 11, 2015, 12:31:27 AM
Quote from: Deebiia on June 11, 2015, 12:06:28 AM
Quote from: LinkCelestrial on June 10, 2015, 11:56:54 PM
Quote from: Potticus on June 10, 2015, 09:02:25 PM
Quote from: LinkCelestrial on June 10, 2015, 08:54:47 PM
Quote from: Munchlax on June 10, 2015, 08:53:42 PM
Quote from: Taysby on June 10, 2015, 07:36:21 PM
Quote from: Munchlax on June 10, 2015, 07:35:05 PM
Quote from: LinkCelestrial on June 10, 2015, 06:24:11 PM
Quote from: Taysby on June 10, 2015, 04:37:31 PM
Back to modern, recently channelfireball did an analysis and they found that on average each deck has a 50% chance of winning. There is no "best deck" at the moment. It depends on your skill level, so I'd call that good.
Imo, I'd like twin to get a light nerf because i'm tired of them mulling to 4 and still winning turn 4, having the game be stalled out then they're like "oh look at this top card i ripped off turn 27. I win". It's really freaking annoying how they are just like, I win. :P
{Rakdos Charm}. Yeah, I know it's not really playable but it's funny.
I love Rakdos charm.
Then they have a {remand} up...
Not if its t4
So they put it back in your hand and you recast it. This is why {Remand} sucks.
Lol remand does not suck, it's fantastic tempo. Causes mana sinks and draws/thins a deck.
I know it's a good tempo card, I'm not denying that. But it is a horrible countrol card. It stalls, doesn't stop. If you can win with a stall, awesome. Run it. If you can't?
Correct me if I'm wrong, but isn't that why many decks run {Pact of Negation} or, Tron decks, {Condescend} as well as {Remand}? I haven't seen many decks that only run Remands. I can't say much else than that. I'm just getting into learning about Modern decks.
Yah they're just a stalling card used in mostly combo decks. They're good for what they're used for. Saying remand is bad because all it does is stall is like saying Cranial Plating is bad because it only works if you have artifacts out. It serves it's purpose in decks meant to run it. It shuts down big spells, allows a card draw(which in twin is a key element to get that combo piece), and sets your opponent basically back a turn. Most decks only run them
As a two of anyways :)
I'm not saying it's bad because it's a stall. I'm saying people need to stop telling me to run it in my control decks. xD
RUN TWENTY IN YOUR CONTROL DECKS! Show em up.
That would actually be funny as it could work. Image getting {Remand}ed every turn and having to discard stuff...
Quote from: LinkCelestrial on June 11, 2015, 06:46:01 PM
That would actually be funny as it could work. Image getting {Remand}ed every turn and having to discard stuff...
Good thing remand clearly states at the bottom "any deck may have as many copy's of Remand in it at any given time" 😋
Quote from: Codester1991 on June 11, 2015, 07:18:10 PM
Quote from: LinkCelestrial on June 11, 2015, 06:46:01 PM
That would actually be funny as it could work. Image getting {Remand}ed every turn and having to discard stuff...
Good thing remand clearly states at the bottom "any deck may have as many copy's of Remand in it at any given time" 😋
Mirror matches would be funny as hell.