So, I had an issue arise recently involving a {Mutavault}, some Elves, a very near dead opponent and a nearly unending wave of {Cryptic Command}s. I didn't think about this course of action until afterwards, but I was curious if it would indeed work. Here is my in brain scenario (Keep in mind this is based off of something that happened about 7 times).
I have some Elf lords and other miscellaneous Elves on the field, presenting lethal, a few non-important lands and a {Mutavault}. My opponent has a {Cryptic Command}, I know he does, or a Snappy with plenty on mana for a flashback. I declare combat. Immediately he responds by casting (or re-casting) the 11th {Cryptic Command} to tap all the doods, draw a potential wincon and prevent death.
My question is this:
Is there a moment after which the {Cryptic Command} resolves, that I can activate {Mutavault} and present it as a 13/13 attacker? He's absurdly huge due to lords, I'm exaturrating of course, but still. I know the ruling where it has to be animated BEFORE declare attackers, and if my opponent doesn't cast and passes priority after I say "I declare combat" without holding priority myself, it simply moves to declare attackers. Given. But after the immediate response of Command, upon resolution, do I receive priority again before the next phase change?
Please don't attempt to answer this if you are guessing or think you might be right, I need a for sure answer because I want to know if I threw my game.
The game cannot move into declare attackers phase until you pass priority on your first main phase then your opponent passes priority. By you saying that you are going into combat, that is in fact you passing prioriry, and your opponent saying 'hang on i want to cast something is him putting a spell on the stack, therefore not passing priority. You then get priority and if you pass then his spell will resolve. Then as soon as the stack is empty, you, as the active player, gets priority again. The game wont move to the declare attackers phase until you both pass priority on an empty stack so here you can activate mutavault before you move into your declare attackers step
Awesome! Thank you man, I was pretty positive that it worked that way, just needed a 2nd opinion.
He needs to cast cryptic during the "Beginning of Combat Step".
Once you move onto "Declare Attackers Step", your creatures will be attacking.
So yes, there is a window, if he tapped your creatures during "beginning" that you can activate Vault during "declare" and make it attack
Quote from: rarehuntertay on May 06, 2015, 08:25:56 PM
He needs to cast cryptic during the "Beginning of Combat Step".
Once you move onto "Declare Attackers Step", your creatures will be attacking.
So yes, there is a window, if he tapped your creatures during "beginning" that you can activate Vault during "declare" and make it attack
Im aware, I just wasn't sure if there was another instance of priority, which of course there would be, after resolution. Yeah, if he just passed priority I could kill him with my board.
So wait. If I declare end step, my control player opponent taps out for {Dig Through Time} I let it resolve, then I can start a new stack as I didn't pass on an empty stack?
Technically you arent declaring your end step, you are passing priority with an empty stack in your second main phase. If your opponent also passes priority then the game automatically moves to your end step.
You are correct, you do get to cast more spells in your main phase if your opponent does this, provided he isnt casting the dig in your end step. Then you would only be able to cast instants. Instants can be cast during end steps and priority passes the same way as it does in the other phases of a turn.
Quote from: Mr_Fahrenheit on May 06, 2015, 11:29:03 PM
Technically you arent declaring your end step, you are passing priority with an empty stack in your second main phase. If your opponent also passes priority then the game automatically moves to your end step.
You are correct, you do get to cast more spells in your main phase if your opponent does this, provided he isnt casting the dig in your end step. Then you would only be able to cast instants. Instants can be cast during end steps and priority passes the same way as it does in the other phases of a turn.
Okay gotcha. Thanks.
To clear things up here, since Freddie Mercury's response is a little off. Mostly there, but a little off. - When you say "Move to combat?" You are simply passing priority during your Main Phase, and possibly short cutting to passing priority during your Beginning of Combat step. Most opponents will stop you at beginning of combat step to cast things, as it moves you out of your main phase. If they do, you still have priority during that step to activate your mutavault in time to declare it as an attacker. Basically, Mr.F's response is only wrong in that there's one more pass of priority between the Main Phase and the Declare Attacker step.
If you say you're moving to the end step, it's usually assumed that anything cast by your opponent is already during the end step unless the specify that it's during your main phase.
Basically, just communicate well with your opponent as to what step you or phase you're on and everything should be fine!
Sometimes i swear remillo is only here to keep me humble
After he commands, he passed priority back to you during main phase or beginning of combat. So yes, you can mutavault
So there's no priority for his opponent to cast {Cryptic Command} after {Mutavault} is activated?
But I guess his opponent can still survive by returning his mutavault with cryptic's 2nd option.
Quote from: InfinitiveDivinity on May 06, 2015, 08:30:17 PM
Quote from: rarehuntertay on May 06, 2015, 08:25:56 PM
He needs to cast cryptic during the "Beginning of Combat Step".
Once you move onto "Declare Attackers Step", your creatures will be attacking.
So yes, there is a window, if he tapped your creatures during "beginning" that you can activate Vault during "declare" and make it attack
Im aware, I just wasn't sure if there was another instance of priority, which of course there would be, after resolution. Yeah, if he just passed priority I could kill him with my board.
I must point out something remillo has missed. If you move to the declare attackers step, you cannot then activate {mutavault}. The first action taken in the declare attackers step is declaring attackers, not the active player receiving priority. If you want your creature to attack, he must be a creature before you have moved to declare attackers step.
Quote from: particle on May 07, 2015, 06:48:27 PM
Quote from: InfinitiveDivinity on May 06, 2015, 08:30:17 PM
Quote from: rarehuntertay on May 06, 2015, 08:25:56 PM
He needs to cast cryptic during the "Beginning of Combat Step".
Once you move onto "Declare Attackers Step", your creatures will be attacking.
So yes, there is a window, if he tapped your creatures during "beginning" that you can activate Vault during "declare" and make it attack
Im aware, I just wasn't sure if there was another instance of priority, which of course there would be, after resolution. Yeah, if he just passed priority I could kill him with my board.
I must point out something remillo has missed. If you move to the declare attackers step, you cannot then activate {mutavault}. The first action taken in the declare attackers step is declaring attackers, not the active player receiving priority. If you want your creature to attack, he must be a creature before you have moved to declare attackers step.
Given the circumstances, that's not entirely relevant, since at least in my mind, the only reason Vailt would be activated at all would be if Cryptic is cast. Basically having it as insurance to have at least one creature attacking. However, you are correct.
Quote from: Remillo on May 07, 2015, 07:41:10 PM
Quote from: particle on May 07, 2015, 06:48:27 PM
Quote from: InfinitiveDivinity on May 06, 2015, 08:30:17 PM
Quote from: rarehuntertay on May 06, 2015, 08:25:56 PM
He needs to cast cryptic during the "Beginning of Combat Step".
Once you move onto "Declare Attackers Step", your creatures will be attacking.
So yes, there is a window, if he tapped your creatures during "beginning" that you can activate Vault during "declare" and make it attack
Im aware, I just wasn't sure if there was another instance of priority, which of course there would be, after resolution. Yeah, if he just passed priority I could kill him with my board.
I must point out something remillo has missed. If you move to the declare attackers step, you cannot then activate {mutavault}. The first action taken in the declare attackers step is declaring attackers, not the active player receiving priority. If you want your creature to attack, he must be a creature before you have moved to declare attackers step.
Given the circumstances, that's not entirely relevant, since at least in my mind, the only reason Vailt would be activated at all would be if Cryptic is cast. Basically having it as insurance to have at least one creature attacking. However, you are correct.
I just meant that people had posted incorrect things and you didn't correct them. It wasn't relevant to the OP. Thanks for always being on top of it, sir!
Quote from: particle on May 07, 2015, 07:44:34 PM
Quote from: Remillo on May 07, 2015, 07:41:10 PM
Quote from: particle on May 07, 2015, 06:48:27 PM
Quote from: InfinitiveDivinity on May 06, 2015, 08:30:17 PM
Quote from: rarehuntertay on May 06, 2015, 08:25:56 PM
He needs to cast cryptic during the "Beginning of Combat Step".
Once you move onto "Declare Attackers Step", your creatures will be attacking.
So yes, there is a window, if he tapped your creatures during "beginning" that you can activate Vault during "declare" and make it attack
Im aware, I just wasn't sure if there was another instance of priority, which of course there would be, after resolution. Yeah, if he just passed priority I could kill him with my board.
I must point out something remillo has missed. If you move to the declare attackers step, you cannot then activate {mutavault}. The first action taken in the declare attackers step is declaring attackers, not the active player receiving priority. If you want your creature to attack, he must be a creature before you have moved to declare attackers step.
Given the circumstances, that's not entirely relevant, since at least in my mind, the only reason Vailt would be activated at all would be if Cryptic is cast. Basically having it as insurance to have at least one creature attacking. However, you are correct.
I just meant that people had posted incorrect things and you didn't correct them. It wasn't relevant to the OP. Thanks for always being on top of it, sir!
I actually had already addressed that situation by saying I was presenting lethal, and survival meant a Cryptic. I even mentioned the exchange of okays during priority passing between Main Phase 1, Combat Declaration and Declare Attackers.