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Magic (The Gathering) => Rules => Topic started by: Falcon182 on March 30, 2015, 12:30:09 PM

Title: Sensei's Divining Top & Sac
Post by: Falcon182 on March 30, 2015, 12:30:09 PM
can someone please help me with the interaction between activating tops draw ability and using an instant speed sac?

{Sensei's Divining Top}
{Goblin Welder}

Thanks!
Title: Re: Sensei's Divining Top & Sac
Post by: Munchlax on March 30, 2015, 12:49:10 PM
Quote from: Falcon182 on March 30, 2015, 12:30:09 PM
can someone please help me with the interaction between activating tops draw ability and using an instant speed sac?

{Sensei's Divining Top}
{Goblin Welder}

Thanks!
So is your question what will happen to top or welder
Title: Re: Sensei's Divining Top & Sac
Post by: InfinitiveDivinity on March 30, 2015, 02:27:02 PM
Quote from: Falcon182 on March 30, 2015, 12:30:09 PM
can someone please help me with the interaction between activating tops draw ability and using an instant speed sac?

{Sensei's Divining Top}
{Goblin Welder}

Thanks!
I'm taking the question like this:

You activate the top to draw and replace, with the activated ability of the top on the stack you activate Welder, saccing the Top, right?

Okay so my understanding is it would play out like this:

Welder's ability would resolve, and then the Tops. Without a Top to put back on the library, you would simply draw a card.
Title: Re: Sensei's Divining Top & Sac
Post by: rarehuntertay on March 30, 2015, 03:51:52 PM
If you could find a way to untap welder, you could draw your deck
Title: Re: Sensei's Divining Top & Sac
Post by: Kaylesh on March 30, 2015, 04:01:48 PM
Quote from: rarehuntertay on March 30, 2015, 03:51:52 PM
If you could find a way to untap welder, you could draw your deck
How could you draw your deck with these two??
Title: Re: Sensei's Divining Top & Sac
Post by: particle on March 30, 2015, 04:51:01 PM
Quote from: GlowackAttack on March 30, 2015, 04:45:56 PM
Quote from: InfinitiveDivinity on March 30, 2015, 02:27:02 PM
Quote from: Falcon182 on March 30, 2015, 12:30:09 PM
can someone please help me with the interaction between activating tops draw ability and using an instant speed sac?

{Sensei's Divining Top}
{Goblin Welder}

Thanks!
I'm taking the question like this:

You activate the top to draw and replace, with the activated ability of the top on the stack you activate Welder, saccing the Top, right?

Okay so my understanding is it would play out like this:

Welder's ability would resolve, and then the Tops. Without a Top to put back on the library, you would simply draw a card.
but doesn't ability get countered because the top isn't placed on top? Or is it one of those "it satisfies as much if the ability as possibile  on resolution" deals

It doesn't target. Spells do as much as they can unless they are fully countered. Losing a top won't prevent the ability.
Title: Re: Sensei's Divining Top & Sac
Post by: Falcon182 on March 30, 2015, 05:18:10 PM
So if I activate the draw ability and sac it in response I draw a card and it goes to the graveyard, right?
Title: Re: Sensei's Divining Top & Sac
Post by: Kaylesh on March 31, 2015, 01:49:30 AM
Quote from: Falcon182 on March 30, 2015, 05:18:10 PM
So if I activate the draw ability and sac it in response I draw a card and it goes to the graveyard, right?
Yup
Title: Re: Sensei's Divining Top & Sac
Post by: rarehuntertay on March 31, 2015, 06:27:59 AM
Quote from: Kaylesh on March 30, 2015, 04:01:48 PM
Quote from: rarehuntertay on March 30, 2015, 03:51:52 PM
If you could find a way to untap welder, you could draw your deck
How could you draw your deck with these two??
1) Activate Top to draw.
2) Activate welder, selected artifact in grave and top.
3)Resolve welder. Sacrifice top. Artifact from grave to field.
4) resolve top. Draw a card.
5) use an effect to untap welder.
6) activate welder. Choose an artifact you control and Top in grave.
7) resolve Welder. Top comes back into play.
8) Repeat all steps to draw library.
Title: Re: Sensei's Divining Top & Sac
Post by: Kaylesh on March 31, 2015, 08:32:27 AM
Quote from: rarehuntertay on March 31, 2015, 06:27:59 AM
Quote from: Kaylesh on March 30, 2015, 04:01:48 PM
Quote from: rarehuntertay on March 30, 2015, 03:51:52 PM
If you could find a way to untap welder, you could draw your deck
How could you draw your deck with these two??
1) Activate Top to draw.
2) Activate welder, selected artifact in grave and top.
3)Resolve welder. Sacrifice top. Artifact from grave to field.
4) resolve top. Draw a card.
5) use an effect to untap welder.
6) activate welder. Choose an artifact you control and Top in grave.
7) resolve Welder. Top comes back into play.
8) Repeat all steps to draw library.
Ah. That can happen. {Puppet strings} comes to mind, but then you need infinite mana.
No, cause you need to untap twice. Hmmz.
{animate artifact} on strings, {animate artifact} on {sol ring} and {intruder alert}. Use an artifact creature as second artifact.
Title: Re: Sensei's Divining Top & Sac
Post by: Remillo on March 31, 2015, 10:56:38 AM
Quote from: Kaylesh on March 31, 2015, 08:32:27 AM
Quote from: rarehuntertay on March 31, 2015, 06:27:59 AM
Quote from: Kaylesh on March 30, 2015, 04:01:48 PM
Quote from: rarehuntertay on March 30, 2015, 03:51:52 PM
If you could find a way to untap welder, you could draw your deck
How could you draw your deck with these two??
1) Activate Top to draw.
2) Activate welder, selected artifact in grave and top.
3)Resolve welder. Sacrifice top. Artifact from grave to field.
4) resolve top. Draw a card.
5) use an effect to untap welder.
6) activate welder. Choose an artifact you control and Top in grave.
7) resolve Welder. Top comes back into play.
8) Repeat all steps to draw library.
Ah. That can happen. {Puppet strings} comes to mind, but then you need infinite mana.
No, cause you need to untap twice. Hmmz.
{animate artifact} on strings, {animate artifact} on {sol ring} and {intruder alert}. Use an artifact creature as second artifact.

Or {Freed from the Real} and {Gilded Lotus} as your second artifact.  Coincidentally also makes you a huge amount of mana while drawing your deck.
Title: Re: Sensei's Divining Top & Sac
Post by: rarehuntertay on March 31, 2015, 11:05:41 AM
Quote from: Remillo on March 31, 2015, 10:56:38 AM
Quote from: Kaylesh on March 31, 2015, 08:32:27 AM
Quote from: rarehuntertay on March 31, 2015, 06:27:59 AM
Quote from: Kaylesh on March 30, 2015, 04:01:48 PM
Quote from: rarehuntertay on March 30, 2015, 03:51:52 PM
If you could find a way to untap welder, you could draw your deck
How could you draw your deck with these two??
1) Activate Top to draw.
2) Activate welder, selected artifact in grave and top.
3)Resolve welder. Sacrifice top. Artifact from grave to field.
4) resolve top. Draw a card.
5) use an effect to untap welder.
6) activate welder. Choose an artifact you control and Top in grave.
7) resolve Welder. Top comes back into play.
8) Repeat all steps to draw library.
Ah. That can happen. {Puppet strings} comes to mind, but then you need infinite mana.
No, cause you need to untap twice. Hmmz.
{animate artifact} on strings, {animate artifact} on {sol ring} and {intruder alert}. Use an artifact creature as second artifact.

Or {Freed from the Real} and {Gilded Lotus} as your second artifact.  Coincidentally also makes you a huge amount of mana while drawing your deck.
I was thinking of  {Mind Over Matter}... If you don't like the card you drew, pitch it!!
Title: Re: Sensei's Divining Top & Sac
Post by: Kaylesh on March 31, 2015, 01:16:44 PM
You guys make it too simple :p
Title: Re: Sensei's Divining Top & Sac
Post by: InfinitiveDivinity on April 01, 2015, 09:07:53 AM
No no no, you guys have it all wrong! It's obviously {Basalt Monolith} with {Rings of Brighthearth} to generate infinite colorless mana, activate Top and copy with Rings to draw your deck until you hit {Mycosynth Lattice} and then you play your whole deck.