If Silumgar's ability kills a card like {Ashcloud Phoenix}, and the Phoenix returns to the battlefield due to it's own ability. Would Silumgar's ability kill the morph card as well if it was some how doing -2/-2?
I think the ability is triggered once when they attack so if for instance after your attack on your end step I flash in {Boon Satyr} He would live.
It affects all creatures that defending player controls at that moment, not any that will enter after resolution. By the time the Phoenix returns as a morph, the effect has already resolved and killed the Phoenix, and will not trigger again unless you recieve another attack step.
Quote from: InfinitiveDivinity on February 13, 2015, 05:37:19 PM
It affects all creatures that defending player controls at that moment, not any that will enter after resolution. By the time the Phoenix returns as a morph, the effect has already resolved and killed the Phoenix, and will not trigger again unless you recieve another attack step.
Yeah I didn't clarify that well
So wait...if my opponent were to play {cower in fear} during my turn, and I play a creature after that spell resolved, it wouldn't be affected? I can't see it working that way. The -1/-1 is a blanket effect that always hangs around until end of turn. I think the Phoenix morph would hit and die immediately to state-based action Jackson.
It says creatures you control, a new creature is a creature you control, so it seems to fit the qualification.
I could be wrong though
Quote from: Oldschoolmtgnoob on February 13, 2015, 07:01:40 PM
So wait...if my opponent were to play {cower in fear} during my turn, and I play a creature after that spell resolved, it wouldn't be affected? I can't see it working that way. The -1/-1 is a blanket effect that always hangs around until end of turn. I think the Phoenix morph would hit and die immediately to state-based action Jackson.
It says creatures you control, a new creature is a creature you control, so it seems to fit the qualification.
I could be wrong though
One-shot effects never 'linger' to effect later cards. When a spell like Cower In Fear or {Drown in Sorrow} resolves, the creatures that are effected by it are locked in, so to speak. It just gives the creatures on the battlefield that effect, then it's done. If a new creature enters, the game does NOT retroactively apply the effect to it.
The same is true for Silumgar. However, if you're attacking with a large number of dragons, it's possible that there could be enough triggers still on the stack to kills Phoenix after it comes back face-down.
Quote from: Remillo on February 13, 2015, 07:25:53 PM
Quote from: Oldschoolmtgnoob on February 13, 2015, 07:01:40 PM
So wait...if my opponent were to play {cower in fear} during my turn, and I play a creature after that spell resolved, it wouldn't be affected? I can't see it working that way. The -1/-1 is a blanket effect that always hangs around until end of turn. I think the Phoenix morph would hit and die immediately to state-based action Jackson.
It says creatures you control, a new creature is a creature you control, so it seems to fit the qualification.
I could be wrong though
One-shot effects never 'linger' to effect later cards. When a spell like Cower In Fear or {Drown in Sorrow} resolves, the creatures that are effected by it are locked in, so to speak. It just gives the creatures on the battlefield that effect, then it's done. If a new creature enters, the game does NOT retroactively apply the effect to it.
The same is true for Silumgar. However, if you're attacking with a large number of dragons, it's possible that there could be enough triggers still on the stack to kills Phoenix after it comes back face-down.
Yup you would just need
{Silumgar, the Drifting Death} And two other dragons. Such a damn good effect
So something like {paragon of new dawns} is different only because it doesn't say until end of turn? Or is it that the dragons ability is a trigger, so it's treated differently in its interaction with the field? How would you explain the difference? Because I know this is going to come up at some home games, and I'd like to be able to convincingly sell it. Thank you for your patience with me!!
Quote from: Oldschoolmtgnoob on February 13, 2015, 10:40:15 PM
So something like {paragon of new dawns} is different only because it doesn't say until end of turn? Or is it that the dragons ability is a trigger, so it's treated differently in its interaction with the field? How would you explain the difference? Because I know this is going to come up at some home games, and I'd like to be able to convincingly sell it. Thank you for your patience with me!!
Paragon is a permanent so it's always on the field. Cower isn't. Once it resolves it has it's effect and then it's done.
Quote from: Oldschoolmtgnoob on February 13, 2015, 10:40:15 PM
So something like {paragon of new dawns} is different only because it doesn't say until end of turn? Or is it that the dragons ability is a trigger, so it's treated differently in its interaction with the field? How would you explain the difference? Because I know this is going to come up at some home games, and I'd like to be able to convincingly sell it. Thank you for your patience with me!!
An ability like a {Glorious Anthem} is a continuous effect (I think) so no matter when the creature enters the battlefield it will get the benefit/detriment. However the ability of {Silumgar, the Drifting Death} Is trigger and once it resolves it will not be able to affect anything that happens after its resolution.
Basically this is how it works -
Static abilities always function when they're on the battlefield. These are things like {Glorious Anthem} and {Paragon of New Dawns}. These simply state their effect and the effect is always active.
Things like Drown in Sorrow and Silumgar are One-Shot effects. When they resolve, they affect things on the battlefield at that time and then they're done. They won't do anything else after that, regardless of other things entering the battlefield. Yes, Silumgar is a Triggered ability that creates a one-shot effect when it resolves. If it said something like
"Whenever a Dragon you control attacks, Silumgar gains 'Creatures your opponents control get -1/-1' until end of turn"
That would be much, much different, as it would be gaining a static ability.
TL:DR; Static Abilities just state something that is true, One-Shots have their effect and then go away.
Quote
Yup you would just need
{Silumgar, the Drifting Death} And two other dragons. Such a damn good effect
Is this correct? All the -1/-1 effects would be put on the stack and resolve before statebased actions are checked right? Or does it go like: 2x -1/-1; Phoenix dies, hits grave, triggers on top if stack, returns morphed, 2 more -1/-1 trigger killing morph.
Wait, now that I write it down it makes total sense. Sometimes stacks can be hard....
Quote from: Kaylesh on February 14, 2015, 09:01:17 AM
Quote
Yup you would just need
{Silumgar, the Drifting Death} And two other dragons. Such a damn good effect
Is this correct? All the -1/-1 effects would be put on the stack and resolve before statebased actions are checked right? Or does it go like: 2x -1/-1; Phoenix dies, hits grave, triggers on top if stack, returns morphed, 2 more -1/-1 trigger killing morph.
Wait, now that I write it down it makes total sense. Sometimes stacks can be hard....
State based actions are checked whenever priority is passed, and priority is passed every time something resolves from the stack.
Tx a lot guys