I'm drafting up a modern baby zoo deck for my friend who wants to be playing {R}{G}. Is this the right way to be taking this? He's on a tight budget, so I am cutting goyfs completely and guides till he can get some (MM2?)
Lands
4x {Stomping Ground}
2x {Kessig Wolf-run}
5x {Forest}
5x {Mountain}
4x {Copperline Gorge}
Spells
4x {Flinthoof Boar}
4x {Wild Nacatl}
4x {Kird Ape}
4x {Plated Geopede}
3x {Ghor-clan Rampager}
4x {Lightning Bolt}
4x {Experiment One}
4x {Burning-Tree Emissary}
3x {Rancor}
4x {Stormblood Berserker}
2x {Scavenging Ooze}
The land base is the ideal one, but what about without shocks at first? What to play instead?
You can't really have a reliable 3 color deck without shocks and fetches I would cut the white.
{Burning tree emissary } really gives you a huge tempo advantage. It is a 4 of in small zoo IMHO
Counterpoint - it let's newer players overcommit into a super value {Drown in Sorrows}, {Pyroclasm}, {Anger of the Gods} or similar.
Quote from: griffin131 on February 08, 2015, 08:14:46 PM
Counterpoint - it let's newer players overcommit into a super value {Drown in Sorrows}, {Pyroclasm}, {Anger of the Gods} or similar.
and counterspells deal with 99% of spells cast.....does that mean you do not cast spells?
{Path to exile} removes creatures. ... do you not play creatures?
Quote from: cltrn81 on February 08, 2015, 08:22:23 PM
Quote from: griffin131 on February 08, 2015, 08:14:46 PM
Counterpoint - it let's newer players overcommit into a super value {Drown in Sorrows}, {Pyroclasm}, {Anger of the Gods} or similar.
and counterspells deal with 99% of spells cast.....does that mean you do not cast spells?
{Path to exile} removes creatures. ... do you not play creatures?
No... I wasn't saying "Don't run it." I was saying "Be careful."
I've found that it's not worth the slots, personally - but I have Guides, Knights, and other things.
It's not a "dies to removal" argument - it's a warning that using it can set you up for a 3+ for 1, which is literally never a good thing.
What is your Counterpoint in reference to?
Quote from: cltrn81 on February 08, 2015, 08:46:40 PM
What is your Counterpoint in reference to?
The huge tempo advantage...
It can be a huge tempo advantage, but setting that up really opens you up to super-value sweepers.
I see your point there.
Cut white. Being in BTE. Thoughts on snooze, guide, and mandrills?
Quote from: Thetrufflehunter on February 08, 2015, 11:33:38 PM
Cut white. Being in BTE. Thoughts on snooze, guide, and mandrills?
Mandrills might be too slow in this deck, it needs fetches it feed itself. {Become immense} is very good and has popped up in phyrexian zoo and infect variants. Goblin guide is always good, scavenging ooze might be too slow.
Quote from: Hunteroffire9 on February 08, 2015, 11:46:01 PM
Quote from: Thetrufflehunter on February 08, 2015, 11:33:38 PM
Cut white. Being in BTE. Thoughts on snooze, guide, and mandrills?
Mandrills might be too slow in this deck, it needs fetches it feed itself. {Become immense} is very good and has popped up in phyrexian zoo and infect variants. Goblin guide is always good, scavenging ooze might be too slow.
Isn't ghorclan better than BI? Or both?
Quote from: Thetrufflehunter on February 08, 2015, 11:33:38 PM
Cut white. Being in BTE. Thoughts on snooze, guide, and mandrills?
Scooze for sure, Guide for sure, Mandrills... eh. Without fetches or some way to fuel Delve they're not that great.
Hunt master is good.
Quote from: the_intelligentleman on February 09, 2015, 07:46:55 AM
Hunt master is good.
As a general rule, aggro decks don't like 4 drops, despite obvious exceptions like hooting mandrils or ghor clan rampager
Agreed. Hunt master is more of a midrange card than an aggro card
Okay awesome. I'll update the list soon.
How does this deck protect against wipes? Sideboard?
{Rancor} and {Stormblood Berserker}?
In starting to like this list more. I'd probably cut {flinthoof boar} 2 for a maybe 3/3 isn't very good and 3 for a maybe 3/3 with haste is awful.
I'd also take out either kird ape or loam lion, i find running one of them along side your wild nacatl is where you want to be in terms of one drops. I'd definitely add 4 boros charm and cut a hooting Mandrils (you don't have enough fetches) in favor of a 4th rampager. Storm blood berserker seems meh, you want your two drops to come down on turn 2 and unless you're able to land a hit with a nacatl or lion/ape on turn 2 it seems hard to get active, plus it's the last thing you want to draw on an empty board. I've no idea how well rancor would work, I've never tried it but it seems okay
Quote from: Kaalia with haste on February 10, 2015, 08:49:36 AM
In starting to like this list more. I'd probably cut {flinthoof boar} 2 for a maybe 3/3 isn't very good and 3 for a maybe 3/3 with haste is awful.
I'd also take out either kird ape or loam lion, i find running one of them along side your wild nacatl is where you want to be in terms of one drops. I'd definitely add 4 boros charm and cut a hooting Mandrils (you don't have enough fetches) in favor of a 4th rampager. Storm blood berserker seems meh, you want your two drops to come down on turn 2 and unless you're able to land a hit with a nacatl or lion/ape on turn 2 it seems hard to get active, plus it's the last thing you want to draw on an empty board. I've no idea how well rancor would work, I've never tried it but it seems okay
This list is just red green now. I'll update asap.
Scooze seems good.
Quote from: the_intelligentleman on February 10, 2015, 01:29:01 PM
Scooze seems good.
It seems a bit slow for an aggro deck, it fits better in a midrange or toolbox shell
Quote from: Kaalia with haste on February 10, 2015, 01:59:34 PM
Quote from: the_intelligentleman on February 10, 2015, 01:29:01 PM
Scooze seems good.
It seems a bit slow for an aggro deck, it fits better in a midrange or toolbox shell
I actually disagree. A grizzly bear for two mana that progressively gets bigger, and deals with graveyard decks, is fine in zoo. It's even better in two color zoo.
Quote from: the_intelligentleman on February 10, 2015, 02:06:03 PM
Quote from: Kaalia with haste on February 10, 2015, 01:59:34 PM
Quote from: the_intelligentleman on February 10, 2015, 01:29:01 PM
Scooze seems good.
It seems a bit slow for an aggro deck, it fits better in a midrange or toolbox shell
I actually disagree. A grizzly bear for two mana that progressively gets bigger, and deals with graveyard decks, is fine in zoo. It's even better in two color zoo.
I mean the whole point of zoo is to be blazing fast. Scooze is better for kill your thing, hand disruption, drop a threat type decks whereas this deck just wants to drop a billion moderately sized things quickly and kill your opponent before they can say damnation
Quote from: the_intelligentleman on February 10, 2015, 02:06:03 PM
Quote from: Kaalia with haste on February 10, 2015, 01:59:34 PM
Quote from: the_intelligentleman on February 10, 2015, 01:29:01 PM
Scooze seems good.
It seems a bit slow for an aggro deck, it fits better in a midrange or toolbox shell
I actually disagree. A grizzly bear for two mana that progressively gets bigger, and deals with graveyard decks, is fine in zoo. It's even better in two color zoo.
If there were infinite creatures in graveyards I would agree with you, but by the time scooze is more than a 4 mana 4/4 that gained you 2 life, they're dead. I'd rather just play qasali pridemage and I really don't like pridemage in zoo.
Updated. Cut the white. WHAT THE HECK DO I DO FOR SIDEBOARD TECH?
I would usually say blood moon, but idk if this list even has a problem with it..
Without white your SB options are pretty limited (no aven mindcensor, gaddock teeg, chained to the rocks, or eidolon of rhetoric) but here's a list if stuff off the top of my head/stolen from mtgtop8
Choke (pretty obvious when to bring this baby in)
Dismember (I guess this comes in against decks like infect and decks with rhino?)
Torpor orb (twin)
Dryad arbor (decks with Lili, so you can fetch the arbor in response to the minus 2 and sac that instead of your threat(s) )
Destructive revelry (decks with good artifacts or enchantment that help their game go smoother)
If you were to add white you get these:
Eidolon of rhetoric
Spirit of the labyrinth
Kataki, war's wage
Seeker of the way
Aven mindcensor
Gaddock teeg
Chained to the rocks
Plus these MB:
Boros charm
Lightning helix
Path to exile
Wild nacatl gets better
Loam lion
I'm a little biased towards adding white, haha.
Thoughts on {bloodhall ooze} over {Stormblood berserker}?
Quote from: Thetrufflehunter on February 12, 2015, 10:44:26 AM
Thoughts on {bloodhall ooze} over {Stormblood berserker}?
Too conditional and too slow.
So I built this deck for $60 on tcg. That includes shocks.
When I get home, I'll look up my Gruul and Naya Zoo decks that I have on cockatrice and message them to you for ideas
Edit: have you thought about {Hellspark Elemental}? Gives you late game creature after you've run out of gas, and most opponents forget that it's in the grave
Quote from: Thetrufflehunter on February 12, 2015, 10:44:26 AM
Thoughts on {bloodhall ooze} over {Stormblood berserker}?
Seems like a solid budget option. Obviously not optimal way better than berserker.