why doesn't delver just run {howling mine} instead of cruise now that it's banned. Seems pretty good. Yes, your opponents do get to draw some cards, but delver doesn't really care.
Drawing one vs three?
Change the game taysby
I'm thinking about building UR peasant delver
Quote from: Taysby on January 29, 2015, 09:30:33 PM
Quote from: particle on January 29, 2015, 09:27:57 PM
Drawing one vs three?
You mean draw 7 instead of 3? ;)
Delver should be finishing before you draw 7 from the mine or you are doing it wrong
Quote from: Taysby on January 29, 2015, 11:29:37 PM
But it's definitely an improvement over not having it. Even if you only get 3 from it, it's a slightly slower treasure cruise.
I feel like this is a blatant troll thread, but I'll bite.
Mine is too slow, costs two mana, and gives your opponent cards. If anything, Legacy Delver will replace Cruise with {Dig Through Time}, because it gives you two cards right there.
Quote from: Taysby on January 29, 2015, 11:42:56 PM
Delver wants cards right? Delver doesn't particularly care if your opponents draw some cards, because there is no change in card advantage. It just needs more bolts to get in their hand.
Is it slower than they'd prefer, yes. Does that necessarily make it bad? No.
Think about it this way: would you tell a storm player to play {Jace's Ingenuity}? No. "But it's {Ancestral Recall}! It might be a little slow, but...."
The other major problem is the fact that Delver usually relies on cantrips and other low impact cards, but makes up for it with the sheer card advantage. Your opponent is usually playing higher impact cards because they aren't expecting the extra card advantage, so the majority of the time, your opponent will get more out of it than a Delver deck would. Not to mention its a huge tempo loss, that even if you hit all your land drops, doesn't make up for itself until turn 4 (doesn't actually give you advantage till turn 5), and rewards your opponent before it rewards you.
Quote from: Remillo on January 29, 2015, 11:31:33 PM
Quote from: Taysby on January 29, 2015, 11:29:37 PM
But it's definitely an improvement over not having it. Even if you only get 3 from it, it's a slightly slower treasure cruise.
I feel like this is a blatant troll thread, but I'll bite.
😆😆😆😆
just keep running U/R Delver and replace treasure cruise with {browbeat}. I think that is one of the best case scenarios.......although it is a dead draw when you are behind and your opponent can easily pay the life.
Quote from: cltrn81 on January 30, 2015, 03:48:16 PM
just keep running U/R Delver and replace treasure cruise with {browbeat}. I think that is one of the best case scenarios.......although it is a dead draw when you are behind and your opponent can easily pay the life.
Browbeat is what defines a burn player lol if they run browbeat they're doing it wrong :P
{Browbeat} isn't that bad. If you are behind or early game and they pay the life, you're no longer so far behind. It's just that burn doesn't normally want to pay three mana for anything.
Quote from: LinkCelestrial on February 03, 2015, 09:20:23 PM
{Browbeat} isn't that bad. If you are behind or early game and they pay the life, you're no longer so far behind. It's just that burn doesn't normally want to pay three mana for anything.
Exactly
I feel like {Browbeat} should be good.
3 for 5 or draw cards, but I also feel like it's bad.
It's awful in 99% of scenarios you'd rather have another bolt also 3 mana is awfully hard to get to in some burn decks
Quote from: Mattao19 on February 04, 2015, 12:06:23 PM
It's awful in 99% of scenarios you'd rather have another bolt also 3 mana is awfully hard to get to in some burn decks
Don't be a hater. That card is not that terrible. Sure it is not ideal but the theory is you can get your opponent down pretty low and at that time you probably need your hand {replenish}ed. This card forces a bad v bad scenario on your opponent. The worse case scenario is when you are behind and your opponent can easily pay the life......if you are in this scenario and playing RDW then 3 new cards may not make the difference anyway. The point is the worse case scenario is not 99% of the time like you are saying.
I guess but if you ask burn players why they don't run it they all unanimously say "because it's bad" to me that's enough to convince me not to run it
I have a rdw modern deck and I have experienced both sides of this scenario. I am not a religious rdw player and never truly used it in a super competitive format. I will say the card is good when it is at its best but it is a terrible top deck when you are behind. I think I main board it as a 3 of.....but I have not played with the deck in a while.
RDW really does starve for card drawing and browbeat does a good-marginal job of it. But a {treasure cruise} it is definitely not.
Agreed :D
I've been debating making a Modern counterburn deck focusing around {Young Pyromancer} and {Monestary Mentor} to just keep my opponent off the board, flood tokens and burn face. {Browbeat} is one of the cards I'm considering as three mana shouldn't be a problem. Just haven't gotten around to it.
I have been playtesting mentor in modern and he is just not what you want to do on T3. He is powerful but he loses a lot of tempo for you. I have found him a better T5 or later play so you can trigger him the same turn to guarantee something for your investment before he gets a kill spell sent his way. Young Peezy still rains supreme IMHO.
Quote from: cltrn81 on February 07, 2015, 05:45:25 PM
I have been playtesting mentor in modern and he is just not what you want to do on T3. He is powerful but he loses a lot of tempo for you. I have found him a better T5 or later play so you can trigger him the same turn to guarantee something for your investment before he gets a kill spell sent his way. Young Peezy still rains supreme IMHO.
What you say makes a lot of since. What do you think is the right number to play? 2 or 3?
Quote from: Dmreiss on February 07, 2015, 09:33:50 PM
Quote from: cltrn81 on February 07, 2015, 05:45:25 PM
I have been playtesting mentor in modern and he is just not what you want to do on T3. He is powerful but he loses a lot of tempo for you. I have found him a better T5 or later play so you can trigger him the same turn to guarantee something for your investment before he gets a kill spell sent his way. Young Peezy still rains supreme IMHO.
What you say makes a lot of since. What do you think is the right number to play? 2 or 3?
I am running 3 as well but idk if this card is gonna be a thing. In standard, rabble master is the better choice in a lot of scenerios. It is just not turning out to be a reliable enough card. But this is just my very limited experience. No where near the time pros put into playtesting.
Quote from: cltrn81 on February 07, 2015, 10:43:42 PM
Quote from: Dmreiss on February 07, 2015, 09:33:50 PM
Quote from: cltrn81 on February 07, 2015, 05:45:25 PM
I have been playtesting mentor in modern and he is just not what you want to do on T3. He is powerful but he loses a lot of tempo for you. I have found him a better T5 or later play so you can trigger him the same turn to guarantee something for your investment before he gets a kill spell sent his way. Young Peezy still rains supreme IMHO.
What you say makes a lot of since. What do you think is the right number to play? 2 or 3?
I am running 3 as well but idk if this card is gonna be a thing. In standard, rabble master is the better choice in a lot of scenerios. It is just not turning out to be a reliable enough card. But this is just my very limited experience. No where near the time pros put into playtesting.
In my Jeskai Counterburn deck he is extremely dangerous if I can keep him on the board. I do agree that three of seems to be the best number, and you generally don't want to drop him on T3 so you can keep him alive.
Thinking about running a peasant version of UR delver, with my 5 uncommons being 3 {Young Pyromancer} and 2 {Taylor Swiftspear}