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Magic (The Gathering) => Rules => Topic started by: Dusktreader749 on January 27, 2015, 12:49:23 PM

Title: Gods devotion
Post by: Dusktreader749 on January 27, 2015, 12:49:23 PM
so what type of effect is gods devotion I.e. State based, triggered, activated
Title: Re: Gods devotion
Post by: Dusktreader749 on January 27, 2015, 01:13:45 PM
Which leads me to my other question. If I cloud shift a creature during combat which would cause a god to lose its devotion for that time but it comes back before state based action check is the God still attacking
Title: Re: Gods devotion
Post by: Kaylesh on January 27, 2015, 02:25:55 PM
Of I read the description it is constantly checked, so even during resolution. Unsure though.
Title: Re: Gods devotion
Post by: Dusktreader749 on January 27, 2015, 02:42:27 PM
But there is no time for it to check between when it enters and when it leaves
Title: Re: Gods devotion
Post by: Kaylesh on January 27, 2015, 03:31:58 PM
Quote from: Dusktreader749 on January 27, 2015, 02:42:27 PM
But there is no time for it to check between when it enters and when it leaves
That's why I'm unsure, not even sure if it is state based or continuous. Like a creature has p/t equal to cards in hand. This is always checked. If you cast {winds of change} it will have toughness 0 during resolution. However, it will not go to the yard, since state based actions are not checked during resolution.
Based on this ruling, the god will cease to be a creature during resolution of {cloudshift}. If it will actually leave combat, I am unsure.
Title: Re: Gods devotion
Post by: Kaylesh on January 27, 2015, 05:08:10 PM
Hang on. I think I found the flaw in our logic. The ability isn't state based, it's continueous. Whenever devotion drops below threshold, the god ceases to be a creature, even in the case of a blink. I think I am right in believing this blink would cause the god to drop out of combat. I will research further though.
Title: Re: Gods devotion
Post by: particle on January 27, 2015, 06:33:29 PM
Quote from: Kaylesh on January 27, 2015, 05:08:10 PM
Hang on. I think I found the flaw in our logic. The ability isn't state based, it's continueous. Whenever devotion drops below threshold, the god ceases to be a creature, even in the case of a blink. I think I am right in believing this blink would cause the god to drop out of combat. I will research further though.

Yea this is right. If a god ceases to be a creature, which will occur here, it will be removed from combat.
Title: Re: Gods devotion
Post by: Avnger345 on January 27, 2015, 07:23:26 PM
Just  {Cloudshift} Before combat and they can't attack with it cause it just entered the battlefield.
Title: Re: Gods devotion
Post by: rarehuntertay on January 27, 2015, 08:32:46 PM
If you want a brain-fry, read this: http://www.starcitygames.com/article/27209_Circular-Logic-With-Theros-Gods.html
Title: Re: Gods devotion
Post by: Kaylesh on January 28, 2015, 03:25:36 AM
Quote from: GlowackAttack on January 27, 2015, 08:05:40 PM
however,

If you do a {wheel of fate} and have a  creature with power and toughness equal to the number of cards in hand.... does it die? This goes along with the whole state check ups
This does concern the state based checks. However, the devotion check is a continuous effect. The toughness will be 0 during resolution, however it will not go to yard, as the state based actions are only checked after resolution, once the creature has toughness over 0.
Title: Re: Gods devotion
Post by: Avnger345 on January 28, 2015, 07:45:34 AM
Quote from: Noblellama on January 27, 2015, 07:37:02 PM
You can't cloud shift your opponents creatures...

Didn't read the card. Lol
Title: Re: Gods devotion
Post by: Dusktreader749 on January 28, 2015, 09:12:45 AM
Quote from: Avnger345 on January 28, 2015, 07:45:34 AM
Quote from: Noblellama on January 27, 2015, 07:37:02 PM
You can't cloud shift your opponents creatures...

Didn't read the card. Lol
I was saying you cloud shift to save a creature of yours or something but any immediate exit and entry works in this spot. But thanks I asked some other people this and they wouldn't explain why it did.
Title: Re: Gods devotion
Post by: Remillo on January 28, 2015, 09:26:01 AM
To put an official answer on it:

Yes, your God would be removed from combat.  Devotion is constantly checked, and if it dips down to the point where the God is no longer a creature, it stops being a creature, even if it's for a fleeting moment while something else is resolving.  Because it stopped being a creature, it  is removed from combat, even if it's a creature after that moment.
Title: Re: Gods devotion
Post by: particle on January 28, 2015, 09:29:26 AM
Quote from: Remillo on January 28, 2015, 09:26:01 AM
To put an official answer on it:

Yes, your God would be removed from combat.  Devotion is constantly checked, and if it dips down to the point where the God is no longer a creature, it stops being a creature, even if it's for a fleeting moment while something else is resolving.  Because it stopped being a creature, it  is removed from combat, even if it's a creature after that moment.

Yay I was right!
Title: Re: Gods devotion
Post by: rarehuntertay on January 28, 2015, 09:29:47 AM
Quote from: Remillo on January 28, 2015, 09:26:01 AM
To put an official answer on it:

Yes, your God would be removed from combat.  Devotion is constantly checked, and if it dips down to the point where the God is no longer a creature, it stops being a creature, even if it's for a fleeting moment while something else is resolving.  Because it stopped being a creature, it  is removed from combat, even if it's a creature after that moment.
That's because gods are fickle creatures. I attack. Oh, I lose a worshiper? Fine, I stop attacking. Oh, he's back? Still not worthy of my attack...
Title: Re: Gods devotion
Post by: Kaylesh on January 28, 2015, 05:24:58 PM
Found some ruling:
603.8. (http://imtgapp.com/forum/index.php?action=imtg;area=rule;number=603.8.): Some triggered abilities trigger when a game state (such as a player controlling no permanents of a particular card type) is true, rather than triggering when an event occurs. These abilities trigger as soon as the game state matches the condition. They'll go onto the stack at the next available opportunity. These are called state triggers. (Note that state triggers aren't the same as state-based actions.) A state-triggered ability doesn't trigger again until the ability has resolved, has been countered, or has otherwise left the stack. Then, if the object with the ability is still in the same zone and the game state still matches its trigger condition, the ability will trigger again.
Example: A permanent's ability reads, "Whenever you have no cards in hand, draw a card." If its controller plays the last card from his or her hand, the ability will trigger once

and won't trigger again until it has resolved. If its controller casts a spell that reads "Discard your hand, then draw that many cards," the ability will trigger during the spell's resolution because the player's hand was momentarily empty.