My oponnent thoughtseized me early in a game at FNM. He knew I had a dissolve in hand. I later cast a Sorin and he played Dig Through Time to look for a counter. He seemed shocked when I didn't play the Dissolve to counter his Dig. I did counter the Dissolve he found with the Dig. He thought it was stupid to play it that way; my thought was that I got 2 of his cards for my one Dissolve. What are your thoughts? Did I make a a mistake, or was I correct to hold off?
Did you win? If so, you did the right play, 2 cards for 1 is good, sorin still lands, and now he's used a dig and a counter. He may have shipped some good cards to the bottom.
This is more of a your call bit. For me initially I would have countered. Just as insurance that he doesn't have the counter and ride sorin to victory if I can. What you did isn't wrong just a line that someone else wouldn't do. Everyone plays different.
I just love the idea of someone digging for an answer, then you counter than answer
I won the game, but lost the match. I thoughtseized the wrong card in game 3 and lost by playing behind the rest of it.
With 3 mana open for any opponent who runs blue, you must ask: does he have counter
dangerous play that paidoff in the end. high risk/high reward situation that worked so kuddos! but i would have countered the dig too to be safer
True, I didn't mention that he didn't have enough to cast two counters as well. His available mana makes a huge difference in that situation.
How many cards in his hand after he cast DTT (before it resolved? Even so always counter the DTT bc he could always get counter + {Periless Vault} to make the Sorin gonzos
No one is playing Perilous Vault in my metaa. I don't think I have even seen one in play.
He had about 4 cards in hand when he DTT'd.
True but still counter the DTT next time just bc it avoids him of getting rid of his 2 best cards.
What deck was he running? Bc UB Control relies on Vault
On the whole I think I'd fight the Dig. It's a 1 for 1 either way, but it's that crucial "other" card you don't get to counter immediately. Not to mention the five cards of crud they got to sweep to the bottom.
That being said, you chose an alternate line of play, and your opponent calling it out as wrong is not accurate. As most plays go, it depends entirely on the exact situation (how many cards in your hand, his hand, his open mana, your open mana, threats in play, etc) and only you in that position has enough information to see the right line of play.
Vault is a very nice card and I'm happy to have pulled it from M15. One of the few things I liked.
Who's to say the dig yields a counter? He might have come up with crap and you would have countered dig for no reason. Since you're sitting pretty on a counterspell, you can comfortably protect sorin from anything that actually can kill him. And he can continue solemnly visiting wherever he pleases
I mean, what if he just had a counter and Countered his sorin in response to countering dig?
It's all about mana being open & possibilities of colors
Quote from: MuggyWuggy on January 11, 2015, 07:19:19 PM
With 3 mana open for any opponent who runs blue, you must ask: does he have counter
If you're afraid to play a card due to an opponent playing blue and possibly having a counter, you already lost. Always play into a potential counter. If the opponent had it, well then that sucks, move on. Being afraid of a counter that may or may not be there is one of the toughest things to get over, but having that in the back of your mind WILL make you lose games, I promise. The only difference is if you know for a fact they have one. At that point you just play differently and lure counters with minor threats.
If you're both blue, why not see if he's going to spend his counter first is my reasoning. Id rather let sorin attempt to land and counter their counter than counter their dig and allow sorin to be countered. I always play into a counter if I need another spell to land next turn.
I can see this going both ways.
Counter the Dig: This assumes that he doesn't have a counter in hand. The advantage is that he doesn't get any additional cards in hand. He had four (having cast dig I'm assuming). It resolves he goes to six. It doesn't he keeps his hand where it's at. As a card advantage straight numbers play, countering the dig would have been the best option.
Saving the counter: This assumes that he has a counter. Or that he has another threat in his hand. The risk is that he gets two cards so whatever the second one is could be nasty.
I could not make this decision without knowing what else was in your hand and how board position was. If I had two counters I would have countered the dig (assuming open mana for second counter). If I had a counter and some removal I'd most likely counter the dig.
The thing is, do you take the bet that the four cards in his hand aren't going to be a threat, or that the two cards he dig'd will be a threat? In my opinion a "scry 7 draw two" is better than a "draw four". There is honestly no right play without knowing everything that's going on, and even then odds are you're guessing. I probably would have countered the dig. Him saying that countering the dig was a bad option means that he didn't have a counter, so you chose correctly (assuming whatever else he drew up wasn't nasty). In general I think countering the dig is the right play. However, it wouldn't take much of a situation change for me to save.
The other thing is that, by the sounds of the guy you were playing against, he's not the kind of guy that'd bait a counter with a DTT.
I just find some magic players believe there is one true route and all else of possibilities are false.
There are many reasons why you counter DTT and also reasons why you stall and let them find answers to only counter that. It comes how you feel it will play out.
What if there are 3 counters in the GY and you want him to spend his final one? What if he has swan song?!!?
Overall for that comment to even happen proves that player is salty. So he can duck off on the horse he rode in on.
Quote from: MuggyWuggy on January 12, 2015, 08:57:10 PM
I just find some magic players believe there is one true route and all else of possibilities are false.
There are many reasons why you counter DTT and also reasons why you stall and let them find answers to only counter that. It comes how you feel it will play out.
What if there are 3 counters in the GY and you want him to spend his final one? What if he has swan song?!!?
Overall for that comment to even happen proves that player is salty. So he can duck off on the horse he rode in on.
^this. So much this.
There have been some great comments on here. I was pretty sure I made the right play for that situation and it worked out for me. Looking forward, I could just as easily counter the dig and feel good about that situation as well.