This is based off of the other heroic thread,
If you cast a spell to return a heroic card from your g/y, does that cause it to trigger?
Quote from: Popper23345 on January 05, 2015, 08:15:18 AM
This is based off of the other heroic thread,
If you cast a spell to return a heroic card from your g/y, does that cause it to trigger?
Heroic is gonna trigger whenever you cast a spell that targets your heroic creature. So if you cast {vapor snag} on your own guy, heroic will trigger. But you have to target him to trigger it, so if you just cast something like {upheaval} heroic wouldnt trigger since nothing is getting targeted. Remember, its not about the creature still being there that matters to heroic. Abities are independant of their sources. Killing a {battlewise hopelite} will not untrigger any heroic triggers on the stack. They will resolve and do as much as they can.
Particle i think you misread the question.
To answer, no. Spells like {Unburial Rites} and {Raise Dead} will not trigger heroic. Unless otherwise stated on the card, triggered abilities of permanents like heroic will only trigger if the permanent is on the battlefield.
Just like indestructible and hex proof. If it is countered while before it actually hits the field then it's ability does not activate. I didn't figure this out till about a month ago myself. Although if when it hits the field, then a card targets it such as {lightning strike} targets it then the ability does activate.
Thanks everyone !
Quote from: DrainCleaner on January 05, 2015, 08:53:44 AM
Particle i think you misread the question.
To answer, no. Spells like {Unburial Rites} and {Raise Dead} will not trigger heroic. Unless otherwise stated on the card, triggered abilities of permanents like heroic will only trigger if the permanent is on the battlefield.
You right! Missed the graveyard bit! Thanks for watching my back homies!
Quote from: Jcollinzz on January 05, 2015, 08:57:06 AM
Just like indestructible and hex proof. If it is countered while before it actually hits the field then it's ability does not activate. I didn't figure this out till about a month ago myself. Although if when it hits the field, then a card targets it such as {lightning strike} targets it then the ability does activate.
Are you referring to the creature with heroic being countered, or the spell that targets it? Wouldn't heroic still trigger even if the spell is countered, because he was still chosen as a target?
Quote from: Oldschoolmtgnoob on January 05, 2015, 08:21:59 PM
Quote from: Jcollinzz on January 05, 2015, 08:57:06 AM
Just like indestructible and hex proof. If it is countered while before it actually hits the field then it's ability does not activate. I didn't figure this out till about a month ago myself. Although if when it hits the field, then a card targets it such as {lightning strike} targets it then the ability does activate.
Are you referring to the creature with heroic being countered, or the spell that targets it? Wouldn't heroic still trigger even if the spell is countered, because he was still chosen as a target?
Let's take {battlewise hoplite} for rules reference, since heroic is not an ability covered explicitly in the rules.
The text states that the ability triggers whenever a spell is cast targeting the creature. It does not matter if that spell resolves. In order to be countered, the spell must have been placed on the stack, thus it has been cast, triggering heroic.
Quote from: Kaylesh on January 06, 2015, 09:18:39 AM
Quote from: Oldschoolmtgnoob on January 05, 2015, 08:21:59 PM
Quote from: Jcollinzz on January 05, 2015, 08:57:06 AM
Just like indestructible and hex proof. If it is countered while before it actually hits the field then it's ability does not activate. I didn't figure this out till about a month ago myself. Although if when it hits the field, then a card targets it such as {lightning strike} targets it then the ability does activate.
Are you referring to the creature with heroic being countered, or the spell that targets it? Wouldn't heroic still trigger even if the spell is countered, because he was still chosen as a target?
Let's take {battlewise hoplite} for rules reference, since heroic is not an ability covered explicitly in the rules.
The text states that the ability triggers whenever a spell is cast targeting the creature. It does not matter if that spell resolves. In order to be countered, the spell must have been placed on the stack, thus it has been cast, triggering heroic.
One thing to add is that the heroic trigger can be responded too. It can be {stifle}d. Also, lets says you target {battlewise hoplite} with {defiant strike}. So strike will go on the stack and the heroic trigger will go on top of it. Both players still get to respond, so I can {pharika's cure} in response to the heroic trigger and kill the hoplite while hes still a 2/2. Note that killing the hoplite will not prevent you from scrying. Only something like {stifle} can do that.
Quote from: particle on January 06, 2015, 09:47:53 AM
Quote from: Kaylesh on January 06, 2015, 09:18:39 AM
Quote from: Oldschoolmtgnoob on January 05, 2015, 08:21:59 PM
Quote from: Jcollinzz on January 05, 2015, 08:57:06 AM
Just like indestructible and hex proof. If it is countered while before it actually hits the field then it's ability does not activate. I didn't figure this out till about a month ago myself. Although if when it hits the field, then a card targets it such as {lightning strike} targets it then the ability does activate.
Are you referring to the creature with heroic being countered, or the spell that targets it? Wouldn't heroic still trigger even if the spell is countered, because he was still chosen as a target?
Let's take {battlewise hoplite} for rules reference, since heroic is not an ability covered explicitly in the rules.
The text states that the ability triggers whenever a spell is cast targeting the creature. It does not matter if that spell resolves. In order to be countered, the spell must have been placed on the stack, thus it has been cast, triggering heroic.
One thing to add is that the heroic trigger can be responded too. It can be {stifle}d. Also, lets says you target {battlewise hoplite} with {defiant strike}. So strike will go on the stack and the heroic trigger will go on top of it. Both players still get to respond, so I can {pharika's cure} in response to the heroic trigger and kill the hoplite while hes still a 2/2. Note that killing the hoplite will not prevent you from scrying. Only something like {stifle} can do that.
The thing about creatures abilities is that they don't activate until they are actually summoned on the battlefield. When you are summoning them on to the battlefield if they are countered while they are still a spell then their ability does not activate.
Quote from: Jcollinzz on January 06, 2015, 10:16:44 AM
Quote from: particle on January 06, 2015, 09:47:53 AM
Quote from: Kaylesh on January 06, 2015, 09:18:39 AM
Quote from: Oldschoolmtgnoob on January 05, 2015, 08:21:59 PM
Quote from: Jcollinzz on January 05, 2015, 08:57:06 AM
Just like indestructible and hex proof. If it is countered while before it actually hits the field then it's ability does not activate. I didn't figure this out till about a month ago myself. Although if when it hits the field, then a card targets it such as {lightning strike} targets it then the ability does activate.
Are you referring to the creature with heroic being countered, or the spell that targets it? Wouldn't heroic still trigger even if the spell is countered, because he was still chosen as a target?
Let's take {battlewise hoplite} for rules reference, since heroic is not an ability covered explicitly in the rules.
The text states that the ability triggers whenever a spell is cast targeting the creature. It does not matter if that spell resolves. In order to be countered, the spell must have been placed on the stack, thus it has been cast, triggering heroic.
One thing to add is that the heroic trigger can be responded too. It can be {stifle}d. Also, lets says you target {battlewise hoplite} with {defiant strike}. So strike will go on the stack and the heroic trigger will go on top of it. Both players still get to respond, so I can {pharika's cure} in response to the heroic trigger and kill the hoplite while hes still a 2/2. Note that killing the hoplite will not prevent you from scrying. Only something like {stifle} can do that.
The thing about creatures abilities is that they don't activate until they are actually summoned on the battlefield. When you are summoning them on to the battlefield if they are countered while they are still a spell then their ability does not activate.
Yes i wasnt saying anything about a creature spell on the stack. I was talking about a resolved creature on the battlefield.