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Magic (The Gathering) => Rules => Topic started by: Redrighthand on December 30, 2014, 04:27:26 PM

Title: Dulcet attack
Post by: Redrighthand on December 30, 2014, 04:27:26 PM
Can {dulcet sirens} ability cause an opponents creature to attack them? Provided there are no restrictions eg: summoning sickness.
Title: Re: Dulcet attack
Post by: Oldschoolmtgnoob on December 30, 2014, 05:26:53 PM
In no way can you attack yourself with a creature, no matter the ability.

506.2. (http://imtgapp.com/forum/index.php?action=imtg;area=rule;number=506.2.): During the combat phase, the active player is the attacking player; creatures that player controls may attack. During the combat phase of a two-player game, the nonactive player is the defending player; that player and planeswalkers he or she controls may be attacked.

The second sentence covers that, I think, being that you may only attack the non-active, or without priority players during the declare attackers step.
Title: Re: Dulcet attack
Post by: Redrighthand on December 30, 2014, 05:41:10 PM
But as I am the active player and I'm the one causing the non active players creature to attack them then they are not attacking themselves, right?
Title: Re: Dulcet attack
Post by: Redrighthand on December 30, 2014, 05:45:42 PM
I'm thinking of it like a {traitorous blood} only instead of taking control of the creature I'm merely causing it to attack.
Title: Re: Dulcet attack
Post by: Nymuera on December 30, 2014, 07:49:16 PM
The non-active player doesn't have an attack step. They can't attack on your turn.
Title: Re: Dulcet attack
Post by: Oldschoolmtgnoob on December 30, 2014, 10:33:50 PM
Even if you used the ability during his turn, he'd be forced to attack an 'active' player (himself) so it would be an illegal target and the ability would fizzle. I not even sure if you can choose that combo in the first place.
Title: Re: Dulcet attack
Post by: particle on December 31, 2014, 12:22:31 AM
Quote from: Oldschoolmtgnoob on December 30, 2014, 10:33:50 PM
Even if you used the ability during his turn, he'd be forced to attack an 'active' player (himself) so it would be an illegal target and the ability would fizzle. I not even sure if you can choose that combo in the first place.

Its not that the ability would fizzle. On your opponents turn, you can target his creature even if he is the only opponent. The important part is that it says "if able." There is nothing illegal about your targeting, its just when the creature goes to attack, it is not able to attack the targeted player, so it can instead attack or not as normal.
Title: Re: Dulcet attack
Post by: Nymuera on December 31, 2014, 03:06:32 PM
Quote from: particle on December 31, 2014, 12:22:31 AM
Quote from: Oldschoolmtgnoob on December 30, 2014, 10:33:50 PM
Even if you used the ability during his turn, he'd be forced to attack an 'active' player (himself) so it would be an illegal target and the ability would fizzle. I not even sure if you can choose that combo in the first place.

Its not that the ability would fizzle. On your opponents turn, you can target his creature even if he is the only opponent. The important part is that it says "if able." There is nothing illegal about your targeting, its just when the creature goes to attack, it is not able to attack the targeted player, so it can instead attack or not as normal.

You have to target both a creature and an opponent for the creature to attack. Wouldn't the creature's controller be an illegal target?
Title: Re: Dulcet attack
Post by: Kaylesh on December 31, 2014, 03:23:17 PM
Quote from: Nymuera on December 31, 2014, 03:06:32 PM
Quote from: particle on December 31, 2014, 12:22:31 AM
Quote from: Oldschoolmtgnoob on December 30, 2014, 10:33:50 PM
Even if you used the ability during his turn, he'd be forced to attack an 'active' player (himself) so it would be an illegal target and the ability would fizzle. I not even sure if you can choose that combo in the first place.

Its not that the ability would fizzle. On your opponents turn, you can target his creature even if he is the only opponent. The important part is that it says "if able." There is nothing illegal about your targeting, its just when the creature goes to attack, it is not able to attack the targeted player, so it can instead attack or not as normal.

You have to target both a creature and an opponent for the creature to attack. Wouldn't the creature's controller be an illegal target?
Not if your opponent controls the creature.
Title: Re: Dulcet attack
Post by: particle on December 31, 2014, 03:35:58 PM
Quote from: Kaylesh on December 31, 2014, 03:23:17 PM
Quote from: Nymuera on December 31, 2014, 03:06:32 PM
Quote from: particle on December 31, 2014, 12:22:31 AM
Quote from: Oldschoolmtgnoob on December 30, 2014, 10:33:50 PM
Even if you used the ability during his turn, he'd be forced to attack an 'active' player (himself) so it would be an illegal target and the ability would fizzle. I not even sure if you can choose that combo in the first place.

Its not that the ability would fizzle. On your opponents turn, you can target his creature even if he is the only opponent. The important part is that it says "if able." There is nothing illegal about your targeting, its just when the creature goes to attack, it is not able to attack the targeted player, so it can instead attack or not as normal.

You have to target both a creature and an opponent for the creature to attack. Wouldn't the creature's controller be an illegal target?
Not if your opponent controls the creature.

Regardless of who controls the creature, the ability is not checking if the creature can legally attack the player or not. It is only checking if the targets are legal, meaning do they have hexproof or protection or anything? No? So then they can be targeted by this ability regardless of whos creature it is and which opponent you choose.
Title: Re: Dulcet attack
Post by: Redrighthand on December 31, 2014, 04:03:35 PM
Darn! I was so hoping that this would work! Thanks for all the help guys and gals!!