So do you guys think Commander can/should be played competitively? 1v1. Possible turn 2 kill etc. Or is the format more about group games and janky decks. Opinions wanted.
Quote from: the_intelligentleman on November 04, 2014, 05:59:47 PM
So do you guys think Commander can/should be played competitively? 1v1. Possible turn 2 kill etc. Or is the format more about group games and janky decks. Opinions wanted.
The way I see it is this: if the group will play competitively to get enjoyment out of the game (difficult situations/decisions, etc.), then competitive is fine. But if people only want to play janky stuff, then everyone should. The bar is set by the group.
I think if you want to play competitively, you play Duel (or French) Commander, which has it's own ban list and if you want to play casual commander, you play with the normal banlist. In my mind, they are two different formats.
My personal OPINION:
Can: yes.
Should: no.
It's definitely a format capable of going to a competitive level. With a legacy-wide list of cards to choose from, and a very small ban list, it's super easy to build power decks that can pull off turn 2-4 wins consistently.
But why? Personally, I play commander because it's FUN. I stopped playing standard and modern because of how dull it becomes - 99% net decks, nothing original, paying for money cards to get that win, and the social aspect of the game takes such a far back seat that it might as well be gone. No thanks, not for me. If you enjoy that kind of thing, that's great, and I encourage you to do what makes you happy, but EDH is what makes me happy and I don't want it turned into another spike casualty. I've already had to adapt EDH a lot the last couple years to the occasional degenerate hyper-competitive deck that pokes into games at my lgs, I really don't want to have to keep adding more hate and less fun to my decks just to deal with it. I dread the day I have to start bringing the Talrand deck I built as a joke to be a dick with me because I actually need it to stop the 5 Narset, Zur, and Kaalia decks.
Your deck should be able to counter or out combo another combo deck.
Just incase you're playing against someone who likes to shuffle more than play.
Quote from: Taysby on November 04, 2014, 07:24:09 PM
I see no difference between competitive and fun. ;)
I'm right around the same area to be honest. I'm not a fan of completely degenerate combos but a few of my decks run infinites. I also have 'em jam packed with staples and great cards. I like to win, but I love to have fun doing it. Often even when I'm close to a win I tend to simply loosen up the reins a bit. (Unless I'm running Arcum, that's my real competitive deck, and if in running I don't hold back whatsoever) It also depends on my mood and deck of choice though. Having 5 different EDH decks and a kitchen table group and competitive LGS group also determines my play style. I think if playing 1v1 though, it's either all in French or nothing. That's not EDH and honestly should have it's own name.
So to answer your question: Yes, it can be. 1v1 however is another story.
I'm with Gorzo. I play and prefer EDH because it reminds me of the old days where a game went long enough to have a chat over a few laughs and some whole group "Uh oh, whatchya gonna do now?!" moments. Hell, from my understanding, EDH first took off because those players want to slow the pace down again while using inventive flavourful deck construction.
So I'm with Gorzo and Argus, you wanna play to WIN, play French with its ban list. If you're playing for social fun, have throw together a deck of every card with a coin toss, for example, chill out and have some fun. An EDH should be more like a game of Chess than a game of Chicken Archery.
In saying that, I do also have a completely competitive EDH shut deck to compete with unfun players. But I feel soooooo wrong playing it.
Quote from: Spikepit on November 04, 2014, 07:56:25 PM
I'm with Gorzo. I play and prefer EDH because it reminds me of the old days where a game went long enough to have a chat over a few laughs and some whole group "Uh oh, whatchya gonna do now?!" moments. Hell, from my understanding, EDH first took off because those players want to slow the pace down again while using inventive flavourful deck construction.
So I'm with Gorzo and Argus, you wanna play to WIN, play French with its ban list. If you're playing for social fun, have throw together a deck of every card with a coin toss, for example, chill out and have some fun. An EDH should be more like a game of Chess than a game of Chicken Archery.
In saying that, I do also have a completely competitive EDH shut deck to compete with unfun players. But I feel soooooo wrong playing it.
....Chicken Archery?
Mmmm chicken
Chicken Archery: loosing a rubber tipped arrow at each other as quick as you can and hopefull you're not hit first.
Things Aussie Uni students do for fun.
Aussies are hard, man. There's nothing else to do down here!
Duel Commander and Commander are different formats. If people would like to play 100-card singleton with a creature in the command zone, they're more then welcome. It would be like debating if Vintage should co-exist with Legacy.
As far as Commander multiplayer format being competitive, well unfortunately you cannot keep all types of players out. I notice spikes get hated on for being "douchebags" or whatever, but that is how they express themselves through Magic. Playing powerful cards and efficiently building decks. I think Johnny combo players and Timmy players sometimes feel like their style of play is superior to Spike (and spike will definitely let you know their way of playing is better). It's a debate that has been going on forever. (See: any argument against Netdecking).
Quote from: Noblellama on November 04, 2014, 11:23:29 PM
As a player who grew up outside of the dueling circuit and only played 3-8 player melee games until 3 years ago, I can tell you that the fun is on the playing of the game, not the winning.
But this is exactly what I mean. Fun of the game is playing TO YOU. The fun of the game is what you get from it. It is many things to many different people. They cannot be compared in terms of better or worse, just different.
It would be like calling a beautiful painting bad because it's not a record, or a film or a book.
I say it doesn't really matter. I was the person who couldn't play multiplayer commander because at the time I started no one I played with (besides the people at my LGS) played commander. Except one person. So I got used to playing 1v1 EDH until I started playing multiplayer because I started helping my buddies make decks. That's when I found the fun in multiplayer and what the format was really all about
The nice thing about magic is you don't have to play against spikes. Or johnnies. Or timmies. I gravitate toward the Johnny/Timmy players because I hate getting quick beatdowns and like having the luxury of building unusual decks that take time to play out. I'm content to know there are players who can grind me into edh oblivion by turn 3 but I sure won't seek them out for a match. Most people I've found who play commander aren't intensely competitive about it. I believe that is largely true across the format and I doubt it'll change.