http://www.reddit.com/r/magicTCG/comments/2jsuue/suspect_shuffling_at_worchester_scg_standard/
looks like this guy will receive the banhammer. apparently hes been doing this for a while. so sad. i really dont want to be the guy who calls a judge to shuffle my deck instead of my opponent but seriously.
Quote from: particle on October 20, 2014, 10:37:19 PM
http://www.reddit.com/r/magicTCG/comments/2jsuue/suspect_shuffling_at_worchester_scg_standard/
looks like this guy will receive the banhammer. apparently hes been doing this for a while. so sad. i really dont want to be the guy who calls a judge to shuffle my deck instead of my opponent but seriously.
Glad he's finally being caught. There are videos from as far back as '09 of him using a Mechanic's Grip to shuffle his opponents' decks. It also helps teach Judges what to look for.
This is exacty why your opponents should not be able to shiffle your deck! They should only be allowed to cut it!
That's pretty sneaky. And a total D@$! Move.
My only question is, and this in no way defends his actions, but why weren't they shuffling their decks themselves? (Not really into competitive play so if this is a noob question apologies.)
It's during the cut.
I get especially nervous at big events, you have no idea if someone is looking at your deck when they pick it up and shuffled sideways
Basically if I see an idea of your build; I will know what hand to take, as opposed to a stabilizing hand for your own deck
Quote from: Destore117 on October 21, 2014, 04:00:37 PM
That's pretty sneaky. And a total D@$! Move.
My only question is, and this in no way defends his actions, but why weren't they shuffling their decks themselves? (Not really into competitive play so if this is a noob question apologies.)
they do shuffle their own decks first. but after you shuffle, your always supposed to present your deck so you opponent can cut or shuffle it.
No bad
This is why I just cut the deck. Like I'm literally watching them pile shuffle/riffle shuffle how on earth can they fix the deck so to me cutting it just is the obvious choice!!
Guy was "shuffling" a deck but forcing them to have terrible hands (like mull to 5) or some such dickitry. Instead of just cutting. He'd like make sure they had crap on top. And thus would win.
So now he's in trouble.
Humphries is just the worst, there is no way the guy could have won on one land.
Any videos of him cheating? If so post a link?
They're in the Reddit, a bit down the thread somewhere.
Quote from: Noblellama on October 21, 2014, 08:27:42 PM
Judge cuts for all top 8s from here on out, all in favor?
sadly i think i might agree...
It would be much simpler to not allow them to shuffle your deck, cuts only. If they do something janky call a judge over.
Quote from: LinkCelestrial on October 21, 2014, 08:48:58 PM
It would be much simpler to not allow them to shuffle your deck, cuts only. If they do something janky call a judge over.
but people will argue that a cut wont change a set of ordered cards, just which one is first. shuffling (fairly) will randomize a stacked deck.
Quote from: particle on October 21, 2014, 08:57:52 PM
Quote from: LinkCelestrial on October 21, 2014, 08:48:58 PM
It would be much simpler to not allow them to shuffle your deck, cuts only. If they do something janky call a judge over.
but people will argue that a cut wont change a set of ordered cards, just which one is first. shuffling (fairly) will randomize a stacked deck.
I don't really see the relevance. I mean they stacked their deck so they'd have a specific hand and draws. If you cut the deck you screw that up. Especially if you cut it multiple times. (Odd numbers are technically better).
I think three to five cuts being what's acceptable is fair.
Visual breakdown of the con. (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mmHatVbG0KE&feature=youtu.be)
Quote from: Dudecore on October 21, 2014, 09:24:41 PM
Visual breakdown of the con. (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mmHatVbG0KE&feature=youtu.be)
WOW!!! SOOOO SNEAKY!!!!!!!!
Thanks for the Link :P
Quote from: Remillo on October 20, 2014, 10:41:00 PM
Quote from: particle on October 20, 2014, 10:37:19 PM
http://www.reddit.com/r/magicTCG/comments/2jsuue/suspect_shuffling_at_worchester_scg_standard/
looks like this guy will receive the banhammer. apparently hes been doing this for a while. so sad. i really dont want to be the guy who calls a judge to shuffle my deck instead of my opponent but seriously.
Glad he's finally being caught. There are videos from as far back as '09 of him using a Mechanic's Grip to shuffle his opponents' decks. It also helps teach Judges what to look for.
As someone who (badly) performs card tricks, the mechanic's grip in and of itself isn't bad. Its where you have the pointer finger on top, middle and ring on the side, pinky on bottom, and thumb opposite middle and ring. (Left hand view V)
Pointer
Middle
Thumb Ring
Pinky
However, this can be manipulated for some bad stuff (marlo tilt, etc.).
Quote from: Thetrufflehunter on October 21, 2014, 10:28:52 PM
Quote from: Remillo on October 20, 2014, 10:41:00 PM
Quote from: particle on October 20, 2014, 10:37:19 PM
http://www.reddit.com/r/magicTCG/comments/2jsuue/suspect_shuffling_at_worchester_scg_standard/
looks like this guy will receive the banhammer. apparently hes been doing this for a while. so sad. i really dont want to be the guy who calls a judge to shuffle my deck instead of my opponent but seriously.
Glad he's finally being caught. There are videos from as far back as '09 of him using a Mechanic's Grip to shuffle his opponents' decks. It also helps teach Judges what to look for.
As someone who (badly) performs card tricks, the mechanic's grip in and of itself isn't bad. Its where you have the pointer finger on top, middle and ring on the side, pinky on bottom, and thumb opposite middle and ring. (Left hand view V)
Pointer
Middle
Thumb Ring
Pinky
However, this can be manipulated for some bad stuff (marlo tilt, etc.).
As I was reading this I realized I hold my phone just like that.
It's a fairly common thing with people who use that grip. Its been done before after fetches and whatnot to put some lands on top so all of their future draws flood them out.
It's just a drawback of offering prize money. It gives incentives to cheat. Magic is a game with an extremely high degree of variance, sometimes people just assume that randomness is at play.
Quote from: LinkCelestrial on October 21, 2014, 09:05:27 PM
Quote from: particle on October 21, 2014, 08:57:52 PM
Quote from: LinkCelestrial on October 21, 2014, 08:48:58 PM
It would be much simpler to not allow them to shuffle your deck, cuts only. If they do something janky call a judge over.
but people will argue that a cut wont change a set of ordered cards, just which one is first. shuffling (fairly) will randomize a stacked deck.
I don't really see the relevance. I mean they stacked their deck so they'd have a specific hand and draws. If you cut the deck you screw that up. Especially if you cut it multiple times. (Odd numbers are technically better).
I think three to five cuts being what's acceptable is fair.
Stacking a deck in magic isn't so much about drawing specific cards, but rather drawing land vs non-land. If someone pulls a Double Nickel, or otherwise stacks in a way that has a 'perfect mana distribution', cutting the deck doesn't change that. Having an opponent shuffle your deck is supposed to be a fair way of making sure you didn't stack it, since they also get to randomize it. Some people, unfortunately, like to take advantage of it.
evidence of cheating:
http://gfycat.com/ParallelShortGemsbuck
Quote from: Remillo on October 21, 2014, 11:33:40 PM
Quote from: LinkCelestrial on October 21, 2014, 09:05:27 PM
Quote from: particle on October 21, 2014, 08:57:52 PM
Quote from: LinkCelestrial on October 21, 2014, 08:48:58 PM
It would be much simpler to not allow them to shuffle your deck, cuts only. If they do something janky call a judge over.
but people will argue that a cut wont change a set of ordered cards, just which one is first. shuffling (fairly) will randomize a stacked deck.
I don't really see the relevance. I mean they stacked their deck so they'd have a specific hand and draws. If you cut the deck you screw that up. Especially if you cut it multiple times. (Odd numbers are technically better).
I think three to five cuts being what's acceptable is fair.
Stacking a deck in magic isn't so much about drawing specific cards, but rather drawing land vs non-land. If someone pulls a Double Nickel, or otherwise stacks in a way that has a 'perfect mana distribution', cutting the deck doesn't change that. Having an opponent shuffle your deck is supposed to be a fair way of making sure you didn't stack it, since they also get to randomize it. Some people, unfortunately, like to take advantage of it.
Well if it's a matter of good land ratio I'm kinda not to worried about that. I mean nothing sucks more than losing because {Mana Screw} but winning cause {Mana Screw} isn't fun either.
Doesn't make it right, though.
and btw just in case anyone is wondering, star city games has started an investigation into mr. humphries and his prize is currently being withheld.
Here's the archive of the Finals of the Standard Open - http://www.twitch.tv/scglive/c/5333218
If you take a look at pretty much any time he shuffles Dylan's deck, you can plainly see him flipping non-land cards to the top and never actually shuffling the top chunk of cards.
Quote from: Remillo on October 22, 2014, 12:42:50 AM
Here's the archive of the Finals of the Standard Open - http://www.twitch.tv/scglive/c/5333218
If you take a look at pretty much any time he shuffles Dylan's deck, you can plainly see him flipping non-land cards to the top and never actually shuffling the top chunk of cards.
Thats nuts!! That is exactly what Magic IS NOT about!!!! Ban him for atleast a year imo
I just believe in second chances. Sure what he did was terribly awful (and pathetic) but if for whatever reason I was banned for life I'd probably go insane so I feel like a year is a good starting point
Quote from: Noblellama on October 22, 2014, 02:02:17 AM
Permanent ban from all levels of competitive magic
Not trying to sound overzealous but with perfected skills like that you think he is just going to stop because he was banned for a year?
Funny a person I know at fnm add card to a draft pool he got 18 months ban, 1 year seems short for the difference in level
Ban him for life. If I was competing in that event and had to play him, hoping to expect a good, high-level competitor, only to get a guy that excelled at slight of hand, I would be pissed. Let him go play poker, our community doesn't need him.
I guess that's true I guess I'm more forgiving (I am Canadian after all lol) but it did upset me a lot and I can see a lifetime ban but that seems so harsh to me.
He's top 8'd and won many SCG events in the past few years. He's essentially defrauded SCG and the DCI for a long time. I don't think people like that get second chances because he's already had so many opportunities to quit it. A lifetime ban is a good idea.
^This.
Cheating makes me madder than a {Hornet Nest}! I really just don't understand jackholes that do this. I get that you want to money, just for the love of Pete.......have some decency about yourself.
Almost sounds like another player who was banned from the Pro Tour Hall of Fame...
I say screw this guy. Lifetime ban hammer seems reasonable.
Quote from: GlowackAttack on October 22, 2014, 12:38:13 PM
I know who your talking about!
Smitty Werbenjagermanjensen... Right? He was number 1.
Trevor Humphries. There is video evidence of him doing it as far back as 2009.
The reality is, he may be a suboptimal Magic player that just cheats to win. The mechanics grip he uses to shuffle is an ancient deck stacking technique that magicians use to, you guess it, stack decks. He's not even particularly good at it. It's just one of the more effective ways (minus marking cards) to order a deck. It could be overcome by asking them to cut the deck after they've shuffled.
That being said, I don't blame him for cheating - money is on the line and he broke the rules to gain an advantage. I expect him to pay the consequences for violating the code of conduct and expect him to be banned for life.
In a game of such high degree of variance it's amazing anyone is "good" at it. It makes you look at pros like Luis Scott Vargas and Jon Finkle and be amazed that they're as good as they are under any circumstances. LSV wins like crazy in Magic Online which enforces the proper rules and no cheaty things.
Screw him. Permaban. No need to let cheaters know they can come back.
Sick. Compare it to using stimulants in sports. You don't get too come back there too. Unless you're proven to be clean. Same here I'd say, though you can't rly prove you don't cheat. Ban
Advanced metrics could have outed him also. The kinds I like to look at in Baseball. If the judges kept track of how many mulligans a certain player takes, then looks at the opponent they're against to corrolate who may be stacking decks.
It's just a little aside for how advanced statistical analysis can take a large group of people and find the anomolies.
Quote from: Dudecore on October 22, 2014, 09:16:00 PM
Advanced metrics could have outed him also. The kinds I like to look at in Baseball. If the judges kept track of how many mulligans a certain player takes, then looks at the opponent they're against to corrolate who may be stacking decks.
It's just a little aside for how advanced statistical analysis can take a large group of people and find the anomolies.
The only problems are these - We don't record how many mulligans take place during a tournament; and if a series of player wanted to 'troll' a specific player may decide that they all take excessive mulligans against that player. It'd be a flawed system, although the statistics themselves could be interesting.
This has literally made me want to ask a Judge to shuffle/cut my deck after every opponent shuffles mine.
If my opponent simply cuts my deck, that's fine; but from now on, if they shuffle it up.......it's getting cut by a judge. This is just nuts.
Shuffling is standard procedure for competitive play, and you'll literally be asking for a judge every single game, not to mention mulligans and fetches. Just keep an eye on the grip your opponent uses to shuffle, if they shuffle their own cards differently than yours, and if they're glancing down at your deck while they shuffle. You can ask them to shuffle in a different way (or have a judge do it for them), and if they see any of your cards, that's a game rule violation.
Quote from: Remillo on October 23, 2014, 10:47:20 AM
Shuffling is standard procedure for competitive play, and you'll literally be asking for a judge every single game, not to mention mulligans and fetches. Just keep an eye on the grip your opponent uses to shuffle, if they shuffle their own cards differently than yours, and if they're glancing down at your deck while they shuffle. You can ask them to shuffle in a different way (or have a judge do it for them), and if they see any of your cards, that's a game rule violation.
can you really see your opponent shuffling your cards, and then ask the judge to reshuffle them? i mean i know you can have the judge shuffle instead, but once your opponent hands your your cards back can you go "i dont like how you shuffled, Judge! please shuffle my deck again!
Quote from: Remillo on October 23, 2014, 10:47:20 AM
Shuffling is standard procedure for competitive play, and you'll literally be asking for a judge every single game, not to mention mulligans and fetches. Just keep an eye on the grip your opponent uses to shuffle, if they shuffle their own cards differently than yours, and if they're glancing down at your deck while they shuffle. You can ask them to shuffle in a different way (or have a judge do it for them), and if they see any of your cards, that's a game rule violation.
I won't be calling a judge every time, seeing as most people just cut and move on. Those that take my deck and reshuffle it are the ones I'm leery of. If I've gone to the trouble to table shuffle and hand shuffle my deck thoroughly, then you don't need to take it upon yourself to shuffle the hell out of it and put it back in order. Just cut the damn thing and play.
That's something I've never understood about competitive play. It's enough to cut someone's deck. Reshuffling it over and over and over just seems redundant.
Quote from: particle on October 23, 2014, 11:33:40 AM
Quote from: Remillo on October 23, 2014, 10:47:20 AM
Shuffling is standard procedure for competitive play, and you'll literally be asking for a judge every single game, not to mention mulligans and fetches. Just keep an eye on the grip your opponent uses to shuffle, if they shuffle their own cards differently than yours, and if they're glancing down at your deck while they shuffle. You can ask them to shuffle in a different way (or have a judge do it for them), and if they see any of your cards, that's a game rule violation.
can you really see your opponent shuffling your cards, and then ask the judge to reshuffle them? i mean i know you can have the judge shuffle instead, but once your opponent hands your your cards back can you go "i dont like how you shuffled, Judge! please shuffle my deck again!
You can definitely call a judge and ask them to shuffle your deck for you.
Quote from: Taysby on October 23, 2014, 11:38:37 AM
Just make them cut it at the end. voilla! No problem.
I also am in favor of this as well.
See I don't like the cut only thing you guys are going for. If it's on a fnm level sure I'll cut but competitive level I'm going to shuffle and I'm going to shuffle well
Quote from: LadyGrixis on October 23, 2014, 11:39:35 AM
Quote from: particle on October 23, 2014, 11:33:40 AM
Quote from: Remillo on October 23, 2014, 10:47:20 AM
Shuffling is standard procedure for competitive play, and you'll literally be asking for a judge every single game, not to mention mulligans and fetches. Just keep an eye on the grip your opponent uses to shuffle, if they shuffle their own cards differently than yours, and if they're glancing down at your deck while they shuffle. You can ask them to shuffle in a different way (or have a judge do it for them), and if they see any of your cards, that's a game rule violation.
can you really see your opponent shuffling your cards, and then ask the judge to reshuffle them? i mean i know you can have the judge shuffle instead, but once your opponent hands your your cards back can you go "i dont like how you shuffled, Judge! please shuffle my deck again!
You can definitely call a judge and ask them to shuffle your deck for you.
i know instead of having your opponent shuffle you can have a judge shuffle. what i am asking is, after letting your opponent shuffle, can you then ask a judge to shuffle?
Quote from: Taysby on October 23, 2014, 12:26:50 PM
Quote from: Millionlittlee on October 23, 2014, 12:15:49 PM
See I don't like the cut only thing you guys are going for. If it's on a fnm level sure I'll cut but competitive level I'm going to shuffle and I'm going to shuffle well
I meant to let them shuffle, just make them cut it when they are done.
^This, I definitely like this Taysby. Bravo :D
Any update?
I think I saw 4 years ban
Quote from: Millionlittlee on October 24, 2014, 04:09:05 AM
I think I saw 4 years ban
Aww, I was hoping for seven years dungeon.
Im an underground dojo keyboard cagefighter. Time to update my resumè
Quote from: Dudecore on October 24, 2014, 10:26:30 AM
Im an underground dojo keyboard cagefighter. Time to update my resumè
lol what a sad little boy. claiming that he must be as bad as "rapists" to recieve this punishment. i feel sorry for him and that he still thinks hes the one receiving injustice, not the x number of players hes screwed out of magic games.
Quote from: particle on October 24, 2014, 10:39:02 AM
Quote from: Dudecore on October 24, 2014, 10:26:30 AM
Im an underground dojo keyboard cagefighter. Time to update my resumè
lol what a sad little boy. claiming that he must be as bad as "rapists" to recieve this punishment. i feel sorry for him and that he still thinks hes the one receiving injustice, not the x number of players hes screwed out of magic games.
You're a better man than I, for I don't feel sorry I feel like slapping him across the face.
Quote from: LinkCelestrial on October 24, 2014, 10:51:37 AM
Quote from: particle on October 24, 2014, 10:39:02 AM
Quote from: Dudecore on October 24, 2014, 10:26:30 AM
Im an underground dojo keyboard cagefighter. Time to update my resumè
lol what a sad little boy. claiming that he must be as bad as "rapists" to recieve this punishment. i feel sorry for him and that he still thinks hes the one receiving injustice, not the x number of players hes screwed out of magic games.
You're a better man than I, for I don't feel sorry I feel like slapping him across the face.
i dont mean i feel bad for him. i mean i feel sorry for him that he cannot or will not own up to his problems. not taking his side at all.
Anyone with awesome photoshop skills should make a "Underground Dojo KEYBOARD Cagefighters" in the style of a Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles poster.
Quote from: Dudecore on October 24, 2014, 11:25:44 AM
Anyone with awesome photoshop skills should make a "Underground Dojo KEYBOARD Cagefighters" in the style of a Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles poster.
Better yet, make it a card and put it in the next UN set.
Underground Dojo Keyboard Cagefighters
Suspend 4-{B}{W}{U}{G}{R}
When ~~~~ is cast, each player rolls a D6. The player who rolls highest may choose any player. The chosen player skips his next 4 turns.
"Anyone want to buy some lightly played Magic Cards?"
+1 for flavor text
Is he really selling? I'll buy some cards.....
You know those black shirts with white text that say like
"Untap &
Upkeep &
Draw &
..."
I'm gonna be getting one that says
"Underground &
Dogo &
KEYBOARD &
Cage Fighters"
Quote from: bravado883 on October 27, 2014, 02:16:59 PM
Or even "when ---- enters the battlefield, choose target opponent. Whenever that player would shuffle their library, instead search that player's library for up to six cards and put them on top in any order."
Meh, kinda like the randomness of the way I put it, even if you cast it, it can backfire completely. Plus everyone gets the 4 turn warning of what is about to happen.
Hey guys, I'm gonna be shamelessly plugging this, because we need it.
http://teespring.com/dojoKEYBOARDcagefighter?utm_campaign=TAretargeting&utm_medium=retargetingTA
Quote from: Remillo on October 29, 2014, 04:03:18 PM
Hey guys, I'm gonna be shamelessly plugging this, because we need it.
http://teespring.com/dojoKEYBOARDcagefighter?utm_campaign=TAretargeting&utm_medium=retargetingTA
Are the sweatshirts comfy?
Quote from: Dudecore on October 24, 2014, 10:26:30 AM
Im an underground dojo keyboard cagefighter. Time to update my resumè
https://twitter.com/vagabundomg/status/527843282529697792
you guys see jared boetticher had his roty revoked and is banned 46 months?
edit: i see its being discussed in another post. nvm
Underground dojo KEYBOARD cagefighters (http://imgur.com/a/G4LO8) are hot on the trail of someone new.
Really don't have faith in top players now. How many people are cheating in tournaments?
Gonna have to make a mat that has sections like yugioh :P
Remove a counter from each phase zone as you complete it. Remove a counter from the land drop box if you play a land this turn.
During each players untap step their place janky counters everywhere to ensure the count