{Jeskai Ascendancy} {Polymorphists Jest} {Burning Anger}
say my opp plays an ascendancy and has a caryatid out. They play a bunch of spells and the caryatid is a 8/11 say so now they {Burning Anger} it and attempt to tap it to deal 8 In response I {Polymorphists Jest} targeting them is the courser a 1/1 without the anger ability?
Seems like you can't take burning anger off the stack, but it would only deal damage as a 1/1. You just couldn't use BA again...
I have no idea what I'm talking about...😅
Jest will just make the 0/4 of the carytid a 1/1. Until end of turn effects like what ascendancy is giving the carytid will still apply. Also, auras or anything else attached to the carytid will still apply.
So in short, you gave his carytid +1 power but it will prevent him from tapping the carytid for mana ;) unless of course he responds with a ton of instants while your jest is on the stack.
So if you played {overrun}, and later, your opponent played {polymorphist's jest}, your creatures would be 1/1's that still get +3/+3?
Quote from: Oldschoolmtgnoob on October 18, 2014, 01:39:16 PM
So if you played {overrun}, and later, your opponent played {polymorphist's jest}, your creatures would be 1/1's that still get +3/+3?
Yes indeed
Can I get a ruling? Not that I don't trust you guys but I just want assurance
Quote from: Noblellama on October 18, 2014, 09:31:46 PM
Quote from: Mattao19 on October 18, 2014, 05:15:54 PM
Can I get a ruling? Not that I don't trust you guys but I just want assurance
Idk lol I'm just still confused and stuff
How deep into layers do you understand? Took me a while to understand what they actually said...
Quote from: Mattao19 on October 18, 2014, 09:39:55 PM
Quote from: Noblellama on October 18, 2014, 09:31:46 PM
Quote from: Mattao19 on October 18, 2014, 05:15:54 PM
Can I get a ruling? Not that I don't trust you guys but I just want assurance
Idk lol I'm just still confused and stuff
How deep into layers do you understand? Took me a while to understand what they actually said...
http://archive.wizards.com/Magic/magazine/article.aspx?x=judge/article/20091105a
fun with layers!!!
The main thing here is covered in 613.1g (http://imtgapp.com/forum/index.php?action=imtg;area=rule;number=613.1g): Layer 7: Power- and/or toughness-changing effects are applied.
Thing is, first the p/t is set by poly jest, afterwards the modifiers are added.
The layer rulings can be found in 613, it's a lotta work to copy those in though.
So just to rephrase my question my opponent has a like 12/15 or whatever {Sylvan Caryatid} my opponent then enchants it with a {Burning Anger} and taps Caryatid to deal 13 (bc of Ascendancy) in response I {Polymorphists Jest} targeting my opponent. Do I get dealt originally 1 damage, bc BA checks on resolution? Or am I taking 13 bc the caryatid (now Sir Froggie) still gets that boost from the Ascendancy
Quote from: Mattao19 on October 19, 2014, 08:50:36 AM
So just to rephrase my question my opponent has a like 12/15 or whatever {Sylvan Caryatid} my opponent then enchants it with a {Burning Anger} and taps Caryatid to deal 13 (bc of Ascendancy) in response I {Polymorphists Jest} targeting my opponent. Do I get dealt originally 1 damage, bc BA checks on resolution? Or am I taking 13 bc the caryatid (now Sir Froggie) still gets that boost from the Ascendancy
13. Caryatid becomes a 1/1 instead of a 0/3, but still has the +12/+12 until end of turn.
Ok but does it still have the {Burning Anger} ability? Sure I'll be hit for 13 once but after that does it lose it's ability?
Quote from: Mattao19 on October 19, 2014, 09:25:06 AM
Ok but does it still have the {Burning Anger} ability? Sure I'll be hit for 13 once but after that does it lose it's ability?
Since you're Jesting in response to him tapping, the BA ability still goes on the stack. After that, yes it loses the ability.
613.8. (http://imtgapp.com/forum/index.php?action=imtg;area=rule;number=613.8.): One continuous effect can override another. Sometimes the results of one effect determine whether another effect applies or what another effect does.
Example: Two effects are affecting the same creature: one from an Aura that says "Enchanted creature gains flying" and one from an Aura that says "Enchanted creature loses flying." Neither of these depends on the other, since nothing changes what they affect or what they're doing to it. Applying them in timestamp order means the one that was generated last "wins." The same process would be followed, and the same result reached, if either of the effects had a duration (such as "Target creature loses flying until end of turn") or came from a non-Aura source (such as "All creatures lose flying").
Example: One effect reads, "White creatures get +1/+1," and another reads, "Enchanted creature is white." The enchanted creature gets +1/+1 from the first effect, regardless of its previous color.
So the creature had burning anger's affect from the enchantment. However. Jest was applied last. And says they have no abilities until end of turn. Now the enchantment wants it to have that ability but you use that nifty little time stamp there that says no abilities
Now. If he gave it a second {Burning Anger} then you'd have a problem
But as it is, the creature loses burning anger's ability until the end of the turn.
Quote from: Destore117 on October 19, 2014, 01:59:04 PM
613.8. (http://imtgapp.com/forum/index.php?action=imtg;area=rule;number=613.8.): One continuous effect can override another. Sometimes the results of one effect determine whether another effect applies or what another effect does.
Example: Two effects are affecting the same creature: one from an Aura that says "Enchanted creature gains flying" and one from an Aura that says "Enchanted creature loses flying." Neither of these depends on the other, since nothing changes what they affect or what they're doing to it. Applying them in timestamp order means the one that was generated last "wins." The same process would be followed, and the same result reached, if either of the effects had a duration (such as "Target creature loses flying until end of turn") or came from a non-Aura source (such as "All creatures lose flying").
Example: One effect reads, "White creatures get +1/+1," and another reads, "Enchanted creature is white." The enchanted creature gets +1/+1 from the first effect, regardless of its previous color.
So the creature had burning anger's affect from the enchantment. However. Jest was applied last. And says they have no abilities until end of turn. Now the enchantment wants it to have that ability but you use that nifty little time stamp there that says no abilities
Now. If he gave it a second {Burning Anger} then you'd have a problem
But as it is, the creature loses burning anger's ability until the end of the turn.
However, the important part is that losing the source of an ability on the stack (in this case, the Burning Anger's granted Tap ability) doesn't remove that object from the stack. The ability, already activated, will still proceed to resolve as normal.
Quote from: Remillo on October 19, 2014, 02:39:48 PM
Quote from: Destore117 on October 19, 2014, 01:59:04 PM
613.8. (http://imtgapp.com/forum/index.php?action=imtg;area=rule;number=613.8.): One continuous effect can override another. Sometimes the results of one effect determine whether another effect applies or what another effect does.
Example: Two effects are affecting the same creature: one from an Aura that says "Enchanted creature gains flying" and one from an Aura that says "Enchanted creature loses flying." Neither of these depends on the other, since nothing changes what they affect or what they're doing to it. Applying them in timestamp order means the one that was generated last "wins." The same process would be followed, and the same result reached, if either of the effects had a duration (such as "Target creature loses flying until end of turn") or came from a non-Aura source (such as "All creatures lose flying").
Example: One effect reads, "White creatures get +1/+1," and another reads, "Enchanted creature is white." The enchanted creature gets +1/+1 from the first effect, regardless of its previous color.
So the creature had burning anger's affect from the enchantment. However. Jest was applied last. And says they have no abilities until end of turn. Now the enchantment wants it to have that ability but you use that nifty little time stamp there that says no abilities
Now. If he gave it a second {Burning Anger} then you'd have a problem
But as it is, the creature loses burning anger's ability until the end of the turn.
However, the important part is that losing the source of an ability on the stack (in this case, the Burning Anger's granted Tap ability) doesn't remove that object from the stack. The ability, already activated, will still proceed to resolve as normal.
Yes but I was under the impression he was worried about mr frog untapping and dealing another 8-9 damage using Burning Anger's ability a second time. Which since it doesn't have that ability for the rest of the turn, he has no worries.
What if you {erase}d the BA in response? No jest or anything. Would it still resolve then go away?
Quote from: Oldschoolmtgnoob on October 19, 2014, 05:25:56 PM
What if you {erase}d the BA in response? No jest or anything. Would it still resolve then go away?
Abilities are independent of sources
So it'd be like they tapped for BA
Ability goes on stack
You play erase the enchantment
Erase exiles BA
Ability hits you
End of stack (unless someone else had anything else they did after your erase)
Good rule of thumb there lama
I prefer:
"If I throw a Grenade at you and you shoot me, that doesn't stop the grenade from blowing up in your face"
You use the bathroom, make a doody, and suddenly get pulled into the torrid zone through a fiery vortex...doesn't take the doody smell away.
I get it now!
Quote from: Oldschoolmtgnoob on October 20, 2014, 03:35:14 PM
You use the bathroom, make a doody, and suddenly get pulled into the torrid zone through a fiery vortex...doesn't take the doody smell away.
I get it now!
lolz...