2 {Llanowar Wastes}
2 {Yavimaya Coast}
3 {Polluted Delta}
3 {Opulent Palace}
1 {Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth}
2 {Temple of Deceit}
2 {Swamp}
2 {Temple of Mystery}
3 {Island}
2 {Forest}
3 {Temple of Malady}
25 lands
4 {Courser of Kruphix}
3 {Sylvan Caryatid}
7 creatures
1 {Empty the Pits}
1 {Villainous Wealth}
3 {Sultai Charm}
1 {Nissa, Worldwaker}
2 {Despise}
2 {Dig Through Time}
2 {Murderous Cut}
1 {Garruk, Apex Predator}
3 {Ashiok, Nightmare Weaver}
3 {Hero's Downfall}
3 {Thoughtseize}
3 {Dissolve}
3 {Kiora, the Crashing Wave}
28 other spells
Sideboard
1 {Ætherspouts}
1 {Silence the Believers}
4 {Disdainful Stroke}
1 {Sultai Charm}
1 {Extinguish All Hope}
4 {Negate}
3 {Drown in Sorrow}
15 sideboard cards
Notes:
Updates!
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Planning on taking this to the PTQ in Dallas soon. Need lots of help. I have no idea how I'd fair against Jeskai tempo. Is there a qualifier for the PTQ? I need lots o' help please! Thank you!
Seeing the new overall meta: 4 ashiok's all the way. I'm seeing nothing ht azban and jeskai and ashiok destroys em both.
I recently added jace to my build, few more days of testing before GP
If you want a good match up with jeskai and abzan, which I can see the mets becoming full of, I'd drop the 3 brain maggots for 3 more prognostic Sphinx. Sphinx is amazing at blocking a mantis rider and is super hard to kill for jeskai, it's also good at blocking wingmate rocks out of abzan. And when you need to finish the game, scrying three ain't bad either. Idk what you would replace but dig through time should be a 3-4 of. It's just too good
I'm not a fan of maggots I'd prefer despise or a full set of Tseizes
4 Ashioks? Hmm.... I mean, it wouldn't be the worst. But I'd prefer 3, so they don't clutter my hand
Also I'm not sure about 3-4 Dig through time. I mean, seeing multiple in my opening hand is kinda bad, IMHO. I could for sure be wrong though, happy to hear a counter argument. I could probably cut a Liliana. I'd still want 1 though for fixing my late game draw. I could see the maggots coming out for Ashioks. But maggot is so good, and underrated. A T1 Thoughtseize into a t2 Maggot is pretty detrimental
Quote from: DylanW18 on October 14, 2014, 02:46:18 PM
4 Ashioks? Hmm.... I mean, it wouldn't be the worst. But I'd prefer 3, so they don't clutter my hand
Also I'm not sure about 3-4 Dig through time. I mean, seeing multiple in my opening hand is kinda bad, IMHO. I could for sure be wrong though, happy to hear a counter argument. I could probably cut a Liliana. I'd still want 1 though for fixing my late game draw. I could see the maggots coming out for Ashioks. But maggot is so good, and underrated. A T1 Thoughtseize into a t2 Maggot is pretty detrimental
Except that a 1/1 won't last long and it'll eventually die giving them the card back. That's why I like Despise/TSeize
Yeah I have been considering Despise. Also moving up 1 Thoughtseize possibly.
What if it was
-3 Maggot
-1 Liliana
+1 Thoughtseize
+3 Ashiok
Then maybe some Prognostic in my SB?
I would find a way to fit in bile blight. Considering that there is very few good black removal you are going to need that.
Bump
If nissa is win con: indestructible land?
Agreed on the concept, but running the citadel is too risky in 3 color, even as a one of. Plus I've found that 4/4 rarely gets destroyed, even against control decks. If it does, Nissa just 2 for oned their removal, which is amazing.
I was curious about my choice of 2 Negates and 2 Disdainful stroke in my sb. Should it be 2-2? Or 3-1/1-3 or 4-0? I'm not sure how that should work out
2/2 is nice IMO
Swan song is fun aldo
Bump
Maybe -1 Lili +1 Thoughtseize
The value of the 4th Thoughtseize is great and I realize that it's BUG Walkers but you don't HAVE TO have all the bug walkers lol idk just a minor thought
Actually lili wasn't supposed to be in there anymore lol supposed to be a 3rd Sultai charm
I feel like TSeize is more important than S Charm
I agree Seize is more powerful and cheaper costed, but running Despise and Seize makes 6 1 drop discard spells. I almost always have 1 in my opening hand. But the two reasons for me not running 4 seize is
1.) I don't have the funds :(
2.) S Charm refills my hand after using all those discard spells. And S charm can kill something once it's already resolved, or help draw to a new kill spell. Top decking a Seize late game when they have no hand is a dead card to me
But I honestly get what you're saying. I'm still considering it :p any counter argument to help me reconsider? Lol
true lol but to me discard spells do this:
they wreck any mulligans
they destroy greedy hands
stop the Ascendancy Combo deck
HAVING SAID THAT:
after T4 they suck
you rarely want to top deck them
and the T Seize can burn you out
so its up to you :P I'm just trying to help :P
I get ya :p I think I'm gonna go for the S Charm simply because of versatility. But I might playtest 4 seizes on untap later and try it out :p thanks :)
I need more vs Jeskai... Any ideas? Is {Phyrexian Revoker} worth running in SB? Thanks
Bile blight, negate and swan song are wonderful for jeskai
Also disdainful stroke
Personally id drop kiora to 2.
Really why would you cut Kiora to 2? Not saying you're wrong just wondering why? :D
I found at 3 I was drawing her too often without protection. The ramp isn't needed as badly as her fog ability/ultimate (least in my build), and usually she dies if no mana is up for a counter. Downfall, attack or something happens to her immediately most of the times I play her.
I kept her as a 3 of for about a month before I decided to up my creatures/walker defense. She always died before really being effective.
Now as a 2 of, I am able to protect her (more counters and creatures). Usually this results in focus on her if there is no ashiok out. Using tricks and rakashas to defend her, my opponents usually miss wingroc life gains (when fogged) & constantly pass to a wall of dealers/coursers with 4+ open mana.
What I like about how much hate she draws: people forget to kill you
I used to run 4 ashiok's too, but dropping one for jace the guild pact was a great choice.
Agreed on 1 jace 3 Ashiok. But in my build, it's kiora's -1 I use. She will kill herself after 2 explores and maybe I'll draw another, maybe I won't, regardless I drew answers and I'm 2 turns ahead of my opponent. Just my build though :p
Although I do plus vs Abzan
Updates!
-1 {Jace, the Living Guildpact}. I will add him in if I get room, but right now, he's meh.
-1 {Nissa Worldwaker}. While I love me some Nissa, I only need one. Once she comes down i strictly resort to 3 cost cover spells and oppressive 4/4's, but sometimes it's a high drop or Nissa in my hand and no cover spells, and she felt clustered. I think dropping to 1 is best. Haven't playtested this though.
+1 {Empty the Pits}. I hate it in my opening hand, but wow what a late game top deck, or good grab with Dig late game. Jeez does it pack a punch. I usually play it for 5+ zombies, and that's gg 99% of the time.
+1 {Villainous Wealth}. Also wow. Not terrible in opening hand, and I cast it for 3 or 4 those games and it's still a bomb. And as for the late games where I cast it for 15? Opponents concede and I win >:D
Concerns: Am I stretching my wincons? 1 Garruk, 1 Nissa, 1 Pits, 1 Wealth. Should I just stick with one wincon or keep the variety? I like that my opponents can't deal with all 4, but I question if it's optimal. Opinions?
Also if anyone ever wants to play on untap message me!
SB I added:
+1 {Ætherspouts}, -1 {Drown in Sorrow}. Sometimes drown cant complete the job vs RDW or Mardu. Maybe a singleton spout can help a brother out?
+1 {Silence the Believers}, -1 {Extinguish All Hope}. I added this for odd situations, like Gods, Indestructibility, or dredge or something.
Any thoughts/comments/concerns about my adjustments? :)
What decks are you having trouble with?
Red Aggro has been the only matchup I have trouble with. Jeskai can be nasty if they are fast.
I think BUG walkers will find a way to overcome azban and jeskai easily & become very popular, although very precise, it's a very fun deck and it puts people on edge who are used to dominating.
I tried villanous wealth and it was money for casting x for 4 vs jeskai. I find it to be a one of but eventually threw it out. Ill have to try empty the pits...
I'm having trouble with Jeskai combo (only combo, others are good), and RDW. But I mess the .love. out of Abzan lol
Strange, I find with jeskai combo, having negates and ashiok early are pretty much a game ender for combo
I just never draw them :/ if I do they always have a back up helix or something. Meh, maybe just bad luck
Yeah people used to mowing thru don't now thru bug walkers. :)
Now lets see the mirror. I would say empty would be better over villanous just due to villanous is at sorcery speed and that's why I ultimately dropped it for {horizon chimera}. I find personally I enjoy playing the game of "do I have a counter?" And instants win all day over sorcery speed.
Lets hope people don't realize how awesome fated retribution is and how cheap 7 mana really is in current meta. The games are definitely Grindy matches I feel currently.
I had one guy on untap with that in his sb, devastating.
One time I was facing a Sultai ramp deck and they said In Garruk's wake and I said negate, they said ANOTHER in garruks wake... He had soooo much mana lol just an anecdote I wanted to share
Seriously. I feel silly with how much mana I have towards a 40 minute game 1. Sometimes I think waiting for surprise 4x {Mind Sculpt} would be hilarious. It would be hard not to spend em fast if you drew em early.
I think nissa is almost near my price range finally, but I say drop a wealth for more protection? Empty the pits seems like the better X spell of the two, maybe SB wealth for jeskai matchups. That's where a little wealth gods a long way - OH hai stoke/2x mantis and a charm!
Been up all night with untap. Loving the changes I've made, currently at 8 wins, and 2 losses, but have won all 4 2/3's.
Temur Midrange (midrange doesn't stand a chance lol)
Jeskai Tempo (got 3 coursers to stabilize)
RDW (won first game with a {empty the pits} for 7 zombies. Won the next with a starting hand with 2 {Drown in Sorrow}s ;) )
Weird Dimir Aggro? (Wasn't a challenge. {Empty the Pits} for 5 both games)
So far, love it
Empty the pits forever. New favorite card lol also going into my Mimeoplasm EDH. Hoping to cast X = 30+ sometime lol
I'm having a serious issue with UW heroics :/
Drown?
It never does the job. They always have boosted their creatures beyond drowns capabilities
{Ulcerate}?
I usually pack extra despises with my thoughtseizes for rush decks.
The {heir of the wilds} is a decent choice or {hornets nest} since death touch happens. Most rush creatures don't have first strike, there is just the spot burn removal to consider
Quote from: DylanW18 on December 04, 2014, 03:49:10 PM
I'm having a serious issue with UW heroics :/
So I experienced that tonight.
Aggro is definitely the worst matchup for BUG walkers
I'm gonna try heir of the wilds for SB tomorrow, I think the nest is really nice, but the difference of drop 2 and having mana up for counter t3 is huge. Whereas the nest requires t3 drop and basically allows them a free t4 which is dangerous in current format.
Horizon chimera still proving its worth, I dropped empty for another dig... Aggro needs an answer and I feel the SB almost becomes too late. Nullify was good, but still felt I was behind the whole time. Even if I got the play, the t1 drops need a decent answer. I think heir is it for right now, now much available at 2 mana or less.. Ulcerate on the sideboard isn't a terrible idea anymore. 1 dead creature for 3 life instant t1 seems pretty sexy as I couldn't do anything against a mono red Aggro deck
Quote from: MuggyWuggy on December 06, 2014, 05:06:29 AM
Quote from: DylanW18 on December 04, 2014, 03:49:10 PM
I'm having a serious issue with UW heroics :/
So I experienced that tonight.
Aggro is definitely the worst matchup for BUG walkers
I'm gonna try heir of the wilds for SB tomorrow, I think the nest is really nice, but the difference of drop 2 and having mana up for counter t3 is huge. Whereas the nest requires t3 drop and basically allows them a free t4 which is dangerous in current format.
Horizon chimera still proving its worth, I dropped empty for another dig... Aggro needs an answer and I feel the SB almost becomes too late. Nullify was good, but still felt I was behind the whole time. Even if I got the play, the t1 drops need a decent answer. I think heir is it for right now, now much available at 2 mana or less.. Ulcerate on the sideboard isn't a terrible idea anymore. 1 dead creature for 3 life instant t1 seems pretty sexy as I couldn't do anything against a mono red Aggro deck
I'm thinking {Ruthless Ripper} over {Heir of the Wilds}. Less mana same effect plus the morph capability for the two life ping? Is the +1/+1 really worth the extra mana?
I actually sided in ulcerate which was good for any Aggro deck
Horizon chimera is still a pimp
Hexproof creatures are my problem now.
Need a damn instant sacrifice
Quote from: MuggyWuggy on December 08, 2014, 02:13:23 PM
I actually sided in ulcerate which was good for any Aggro deck
Horizon chimera is still a pimp
Hexproof creatures are my problem now.
Need a damn instant sacrifice
What? Who plays Hexproof in std .. What creature?
My big problems were
Pearl Lake (3 mana to kill is a pain in ass when you have to possibly spend 3 heros downfall...)
Fleecemane Lion - him monstrous turns a courser into a chump blocker
Sagu mauler with Temur - my deck just can't remove it once its on the board unless I have a Deathtouch out
Quote from: MuggyWuggy on December 08, 2014, 02:26:54 PM
My big problems were
Pearl Lake (3 mana to kill is a pain in ass when you have to possibly spend 3 heros downfall...)
Fleecemane Lion - him monstrous turns a courser into a chump blocker
Sagu mauler with Temur - my deck just can't remove it once its on the board unless I have a Deathtouch out
Against Pearl Lake: just scoop lol that or a morphed Ripper would help but tbh they just remove it.
Against Fleecemane: blockers do the trick
Against Sagu Mauler: death touch helps but you know it's they're only morph so try to kill the morphs quick
Quote from: Mattao19 on December 08, 2014, 02:41:54 PM
Quote from: MuggyWuggy on December 08, 2014, 02:26:54 PM
My big problems were
Pearl Lake (3 mana to kill is a pain in ass when you have to possibly spend 3 heros downfall...)
Fleecemane Lion - him monstrous turns a courser into a chump blocker
Sagu mauler with Temur - my deck just can't remove it once its on the board unless I have a Deathtouch out
Against Pearl Lake: just scoop lol that or a morphed Ripper would help but tbh they just remove it.
Yeah he's a pain in the ass, the only thing that defeats it: krakens
Against Fleecemane: blockers do the trick
Can't sac your Carytid t3, monstrous destroys courser,
Against Sagu Mauler: death touch helps but you know it's they're only morph so try to kill the morphs quick
I found some people will hardcast it, hence why I'm over stff that taps me out
Quote from: Mattao19 on December 08, 2014, 02:41:54 PM
Quote from: MuggyWuggy on December 08, 2014, 02:26:54 PM
My big problems were
Pearl Lake (3 mana to kill is a pain in ass when you have to possibly spend 3 heros downfall...)
Fleecemane Lion - him monstrous turns a courser into a chump blocker
Sagu mauler with Temur - my deck just can't remove it once its on the board unless I have a Deathtouch out
Against Pearl Lake: just scoop lol that or a morphed Ripper would help but tbh they just remove it.
Against Fleecemane: blockers do the trick
Against Sagu Mauler: death touch helps but you know it's they're only morph so try to kill the morphs quick
{Pearl Lake Ancient}: {Phyrexian Revoker} so they can't bounce it? I've done it a couple times messing around with sideboard options in my Ensoul Blast deck vs my control deck and it's not terrible (except that my Ensoul Blast deck has nothing to realistically remove a 6/7). Besides the {Phyrexian Revoker} can hit other nasties.
{Fleecemane Lion}: Remove it before it becomes a problem? I've had a couple games where I've managed to cast a {Bile Blight} twice or it and {Drown In Sorrow} in the same turn. Usually just to catch something out of my removal range or an ensouled {Darksteel Citadel} or {Fated Return}'d whatever. Between {Ulcerate}, {Bile Blight} and {Drown In Sorrow} you've got options for removing indestructible. Sadly none of them one for one but still. There's always {Wall of Frost}. :P
{Sagu Mauler}: Didn't know this thing was seeing play. I happen to have one and my mom has one in foil...Anyways, there's only really {Extinguish All Hope} and {In Garruk's Wake} for catching that size of hexproof in standard right now. Neither of which are easy or safe casts. Again, there's {Wall of Frost}. :P