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Magic (The Gathering) => Discussion => Topic started by: theintelligentleman on October 07, 2014, 08:34:44 AM

Title: DEBATE ON ONE DROPS IN RED
Post by: theintelligentleman on October 07, 2014, 08:34:44 AM
So... *rubs hands together* Umm. *nervously shuffles feet* Let's talk about *coughs* how Monastery Swiftspear is better then Goblin Guide?
Title: Re: DEBATE ON ONE DROPS IN RED
Post by: Dudecore on October 07, 2014, 09:00:48 AM
{Goblin Guide} gives away tempo. Swiftspear does what you want that deck to do. It already plays low CMC spells to make {Young Pyromancer} tokens, now it has a red {Tarmogoyf}. Pretty cool if you ask me.
Title: Re: DEBATE ON ONE DROPS IN RED
Post by: Mattao19 on October 07, 2014, 09:04:39 AM
Depends on the deck. In the Legacy deck that played 4 Cruise and Swift instead of Gob Guide the Spear was almost always a 3/4. Also watching the stream the announcer was right. If you're playing stuff like {Daze} and {Spell Pierce} then Gob Guide is not that great bc it helps them hit a land.

And then there's Goblins lol if you're playing tribal then go with the guide :P
Title: Re: DEBATE ON ONE DROPS IN RED
Post by: Gorzo on October 07, 2014, 10:40:30 AM
Swiftspear is better in decks that it's meant for (lots of spells to trigger prowess).

In decks that can't support prowess that well, Goblin Guide is more consistent. Even though it occasionally gives away some tempo, the advantage of information you recieve should outweight the disadvantage of drawing them a land or two.
Title: Re: DEBATE ON ONE DROPS IN RED
Post by: griffin131 on October 07, 2014, 10:43:35 AM
Quote from: Gorzo on October 07, 2014, 10:40:30 AM
Swiftspear is better in decks that it's meant for (lots of spells to trigger prowess).

In decks that can't support prowess that well, Goblin Guide is more consistent. Even though it occasionally gives away some tempo, the advantage of information you recieve should outweight the disadvantage of drawing them a land or two.
This. Swiftspear isn't better, just different.
Title: Re: DEBATE ON ONE DROPS IN RED
Post by: Thetrufflehunter on October 07, 2014, 11:02:35 AM
For those who don't know of Taylor swiftspear: {Monastary Swiftspear}.
Title: Re: DEBATE ON ONE DROPS IN RED
Post by: Rass on October 07, 2014, 11:23:28 AM
I know it doesn't get much play but I always like  {Stromkirk Noble}
Title: Re: DEBATE ON ONE DROPS IN RED
Post by: rarehuntertay on October 07, 2014, 11:56:54 AM
Depends on the deck. One drop zoo? Guide. UR Tempo? Swiftspear. Burn? Both!
Title: Re: DEBATE ON ONE DROPS IN RED
Post by: Mattao19 on October 07, 2014, 12:06:14 PM
Quote from: GlowackAttack on October 07, 2014, 12:03:02 PM
Taylor swift is 20$ cheaper , therefore it is better in my eyes

Lol so true! Foil one is $20!!! Lmfao!!
Title: Re: DEBATE ON ONE DROPS IN RED
Post by: particle on October 07, 2014, 12:16:24 PM
Quote from: GlowackAttack on October 07, 2014, 12:03:02 PM
Taylor swift is 20$ cheaper , therefore it is better in my eyes

but then your deck is significantly less impressive to magic groupies.
Title: Re: DEBATE ON ONE DROPS IN RED
Post by: theintelligentleman on October 07, 2014, 12:25:18 PM
Overall though, not in particular deck, which is just more powerful?
Title: Re: DEBATE ON ONE DROPS IN RED
Post by: particle on October 07, 2014, 01:16:12 PM
Quote from: theintelligentleman on October 07, 2014, 12:25:18 PM
Overall though, not in particular deck, which is just more powerful?

neither one is "strictly better" since they are different. if you just had a draft deck with 10 lands and 30 of either one drop, id prolly take {goblin guide} for the extra damage but its still not clear.
Title: Re: DEBATE ON ONE DROPS IN RED
Post by: Mattao19 on October 07, 2014, 02:30:12 PM
Quote from: theintelligentleman on October 07, 2014, 12:25:18 PM
Overall though, not in particular deck, which is just more powerful?

That's like asking what's better {Noble Hierarch} or {Birds of Paradise} cases can be made in both!
Title: Re: DEBATE ON ONE DROPS IN RED
Post by: MuggyWuggy on October 07, 2014, 05:35:18 PM
Quote from: particle on October 07, 2014, 12:16:24 PM
Quote from: GlowackAttack on October 07, 2014, 12:03:02 PM
Taylor swift is 20$ cheaper , therefore it is better in my eyes

but then your deck is significantly less impressive to magic groupies.

Thats when you whip out the the "hard case only" cards.
Title: Re: DEBATE ON ONE DROPS IN RED
Post by: Agrus Kos, Enforcer of Truth on October 07, 2014, 05:37:58 PM
Quote from: theintelligentleman on October 07, 2014, 12:25:18 PM
Overall though, not in particular deck, which is just more powerful?
I'm going to say {Taylor Swiftspear}. When a guy wins a legacy tournament and calls the card, "a red {Tarmogoyf}," you win.
Title: Re: DEBATE ON ONE DROPS IN RED
Post by: MuggyWuggy on October 07, 2014, 05:38:50 PM
Screw treasure cruise, its all about swiftspear
Title: Re: DEBATE ON ONE DROPS IN RED
Post by: Dmreiss on October 08, 2014, 12:09:25 AM
What avout  {Delver of Secrets},  How does she stack up against him?
Title: Re: DEBATE ON ONE DROPS IN RED
Post by: Mattao19 on October 08, 2014, 01:44:49 AM
Quote from: Dmreiss on October 08, 2014, 12:09:25 AM
What avout  {Delver of Secrets},  How does she stack up against him?

Delver is in a different league. Delver is by far the best 1 drop ever printed next to maybe DRS
Title: Re: DEBATE ON ONE DROPS IN RED
Post by: Spikepit on October 08, 2014, 04:51:12 AM
Quote from: Noblellama on October 08, 2014, 02:03:06 AM
Quote from: Mattao19 on October 08, 2014, 01:44:49 AM
Quote from: Dmreiss on October 08, 2014, 12:09:25 AM
What avout  {Delver of Secrets},  How does she stack up against him?

Delver is in a different league. Delver is by far the best 1 drop ever printed next to maybe DRS

{Mountain Goat}
{Ali Baba}
{Cinder Wall}
{Dragonmaster Outcast}
{Jackal Pup}
{Norin the Wary}
{Vexing Devil}
Seconded to Norin and the Devil! I'd also like to give a shoutout to {Birds of Paradise}.
Title: Re: DEBATE ON ONE DROPS IN RED
Post by: Ekann1 on October 08, 2014, 07:14:36 AM
Quote from: Spikepit on October 08, 2014, 04:51:12 AM
Quote from: Noblellama on October 08, 2014, 02:03:06 AM
Quote from: Mattao19 on October 08, 2014, 01:44:49 AM
Quote from: Dmreiss on October 08, 2014, 12:09:25 AM
What avout  {Delver of Secrets},  How does she stack up against him?

Delver is in a different league. Delver is by far the best 1 drop ever printed next to maybe DRS

{Mountain Goat}
{Ali Baba}
{Cinder Wall}
{Dragonmaster Outcast}
{Jackal Pup}
{Norin the Wary}
{Vexing Devil}
Seconded to Norin and the Devil! I'd also like to give a shoutout to {Birds of Paradise}.
Thirded for Norin... Everyone probably knows why by now ;)
Title: Re: DEBATE ON ONE DROPS IN RED
Post by: particle on October 08, 2014, 10:11:52 AM
Quote from: Spikepit on October 08, 2014, 04:51:12 AM
Quote from: Noblellama on October 08, 2014, 02:03:06 AM
Quote from: Mattao19 on October 08, 2014, 01:44:49 AM
Quote from: Dmreiss on October 08, 2014, 12:09:25 AM
What avout  {Delver of Secrets},  How does she stack up against him?

Delver is in a different league. Delver is by far the best 1 drop ever printed next to maybe DRS

{Mountain Goat}
{Ali Baba}
{Cinder Wall}
{Dragonmaster Outcast}
{Jackal Pup}
{Norin the Wary}
{Vexing Devil}
Seconded to Norin and the Devil! I'd also like to give a shoutout to {Birds of Paradise}.

if you shouting out birds you gotta shout out noble as well. not noble llama but {Noble hierarch}.

edited to make it actually legible english.
Title: Re: DEBATE ON ONE DROPS IN RED
Post by: rarehuntertay on October 08, 2014, 11:02:17 AM
Dat  {Jackal Pup} was a beast back in the day.
But what about the  {Kird Ape}? It was actually banned in Extended at one point
Title: Re: DEBATE ON ONE DROPS IN RED
Post by: theintelligentleman on October 08, 2014, 01:05:23 PM
I still think Delver is the one drop ever printed. Followed by Vexing Devil.
Title: Re: DEBATE ON ONE DROPS IN RED
Post by: Dudecore on October 08, 2014, 01:09:23 PM
{Delver of Secrets} is only in decks that can flip a lot of instants or sorceries. He's theoretically worse then other 1 drops. Hes super powerful in the decks he's in because of his evasion. But Delver has to be looked at like a 2-drop sort of. When it hits the field it's a 1/1 for 1. Goblin Guide is a 2/2 for 1. So delver also depends on what deck he is in, like Taylor Swiftspear.
Title: Re: DEBATE ON ONE DROPS IN RED
Post by: Mattao19 on October 08, 2014, 01:19:23 PM
Quote from: Dudecore on October 08, 2014, 01:09:23 PM
{Delver of Secrets} is only in decks that can flip a lot of instants or sorceries. He's theoretically worse then other 1 drops. Hes super powerful in the decks he's in because of his evasion. But Delver has to be looked at like a 2-drop sort of. When it hits the field it's a 1/1 for 1. Goblin Guide is a 2/2 for 1. So delver also depends on what deck he is in, like Taylor Swiftspear.

But that's obvious. Delver doesn't go in zoo but that doesn't make him worse than {Wild Nacatyl} delver goes in delver decks it's a 3/2 flier (flying is huge) for 1 mana plus with stuff like {Serum Visions} or {Brainstorm} (depending on format) it's almost always flippin
Title: Re: DEBATE ON ONE DROPS IN RED
Post by: Gocougs509 on October 08, 2014, 02:26:29 PM
Quote from: Mattao19 on October 08, 2014, 01:19:23 PM
Quote from: Dudecore on October 08, 2014, 01:09:23 PM
{Delver of Secrets} is only in decks that can flip a lot of instants or sorceries. He's theoretically worse then other 1 drops. Hes super powerful in the decks he's in because of his evasion. But Delver has to be looked at like a 2-drop sort of. When it hits the field it's a 1/1 for 1. Goblin Guide is a 2/2 for 1. So delver also depends on what deck he is in, like Taylor Swiftspear.

But that's obvious. Delver doesn't go in zoo but that doesn't make him worse than {Wild Nacatyl} delver goes in delver decks it's a 3/2 flier (flying is huge) for 1 mana plus with stuff like {Serum Visions} or {Brainstorm} (depending on format) it's almost always flippin

But that does make it far less versatile. Delver isn't even in the same league as DRS
Title: Re: DEBATE ON ONE DROPS IN RED
Post by: Mattao19 on October 08, 2014, 02:43:12 PM
Quote from: Gocougs509 on October 08, 2014, 02:26:29 PM
Quote from: Mattao19 on October 08, 2014, 01:19:23 PM
Quote from: Dudecore on October 08, 2014, 01:09:23 PM
{Delver of Secrets} is only in decks that can flip a lot of instants or sorceries. He's theoretically worse then other 1 drops. Hes super powerful in the decks he's in because of his evasion. But Delver has to be looked at like a 2-drop sort of. When it hits the field it's a 1/1 for 1. Goblin Guide is a 2/2 for 1. So delver also depends on what deck he is in, like Taylor Swiftspear.

But that's obvious. Delver doesn't go in zoo but that doesn't make him worse than {Wild Nacatyl} delver goes in delver decks it's a 3/2 flier (flying is huge) for 1 mana plus with stuff like {Serum Visions} or {Brainstorm} (depending on format) it's almost always flippin

But that does make it far less versatile. Delver isn't even in the same league as DRS

I will say that DRS is amazing but I gotta disagree I think they're about even Delvers clock is so quick and with the counter magic the decks play it can be tough to remove him.
Title: Re: DEBATE ON ONE DROPS IN RED
Post by: Gorzo on October 08, 2014, 03:35:21 PM
Not to be "that guy" but debating which card is the best is a really silly concept to me. It's all apples and oranges - sure they're all cards/fruit so you can technically compare them, but they're so all so fundamentally different, applied in different ways, and used for completely different purposes, so doesn't it just end up boiling down to personal taste or a specific situation/deck? Or am I just out of touch here?
Title: Re: DEBATE ON ONE DROPS IN RED
Post by: particle on October 08, 2014, 04:12:20 PM
Quote from: Gorzo on October 08, 2014, 03:35:21 PM
Not to be "that guy" but debating which card is the best is a really silly concept to me. It's all apples and oranges - sure they're all cards/fruit so you can technically compare them, but they're so all so fundamentally different, applied in different ways, and used for completely different purposes, so doesn't it just end up boiling down to personal taste or a specific situation/deck? Or am I just out of touch here?

i agree in general but sometimes things are strictly better like {giant spider} vs {graverobber spider} where there are the same creature except one is better
Title: Re: DEBATE ON ONE DROPS IN RED
Post by: NovusOrbis on October 08, 2014, 07:05:12 PM
Or we could all just run {Auriok Champion} and not worry About red.
Title: Re: DEBATE ON ONE DROPS IN RED
Post by: Ekann1 on October 08, 2014, 08:00:11 PM
Quote from: NovusOrbis on October 08, 2014, 07:05:12 PM
Or we could all just run {Auriok Champion} and not worry About red.
I like this guy. Go soul sisters!
Title: Re: DEBATE ON ONE DROPS IN RED
Post by: NovusOrbis on October 08, 2014, 10:43:37 PM
Quote from: E.kann1 on October 08, 2014, 08:00:11 PM
Quote from: NovusOrbis on October 08, 2014, 07:05:12 PM
Or we could all just run {Auriok Champion} and not worry About red.
I like this guy. Go soul sisters!
I run them as a 3 of in my list 😉