My friend and I were mulling over an idea and wasn't sure if this worked this way so I needed help.
Say you have Cauldron of Souls, Phyrexian Altar, and Gerald's Messenger in play. Can you tap CoS to give Geralf's Messenger Persist and repeatedly sacrifice him to the Phyrexian Altar for infinite life loss/mana?
Quote from: Leviathan on April 12, 2012, 01:29:32 AM
My friend and I were mulling over an idea and wasn't sure if this worked this way so I needed help.
Say you have {Cauldron of Souls}, {Phyrexian Altar}, and {Gerald's Messenger} in play. Can you tap CoS to give Geralf's Messenger Persist and repeatedly sacrifice him to the Phyrexian Altar for infinite life loss/mana?
curly brackets ny good friend.
Yes as long as u give him persist when he needs it (when undying has brought him back). then after undying brings him back persist can still bring him back since he had no -1 and vice versa
If CoS gives a creature persist, when it leaves play and returns, it won't have persist anymore.
CR 400.7. An object that moves from one zone to another becomes a new object with no memory of, or relation to, its previous existence.
Sweet thanks for the help man appreciate it!
they cancel on the next state based check. However. Say u had the messanger with +1 and i {Black-Sun Zenith} for 3. That would kill the mindcrusher while it still had a +1 so undying would not take affect
The counters "annihilate" each other like matter & antimatter (without all the mess!)
CR 704.5r If a permanent has both a +1/+1 counter and a -1/-1 counter on it, N +1/+1 and N -1/-1 counters are removed from it, where N is the smaller of the number of +1/+1 and -1/-1 counters on it.
You remove the counters at the same time the state is checked (right before a player woul get priority). This happend at the exact same time that creatures with lethal damage or zero toughness die too.
Say a 1/1 creature with two +1/+1 counters on It (3/3) gets four -1/-1 counters added. Before anything else happens, the creature dies with two +1/+1 and four -1/-1 counter on it.
Now, if that same guy only got two -1/-1 counters on, when the state is checked two of each counter will be removed leaving a 1/1.
Ok this has been a huge help man thanks