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{Roon of the Hidden Realm} 100 cards 1 {Roon of the Hidden Realm} 🌠🎨 Commander 6 {Forest}🌠 Scars of Mirrodin + Mirrodin Besieged (Panoramic) 4 {Island} 🌠 Scars of Mirrodin (Panoramic) 4 {Plains} 🌠 Scars of Mirrodin (Panoramic) 1 {Breeding Pool} 1 {Celestial Colonnade} ✒️ 1 {Command Tower} 🌠 Commander's Arsenal 1 {Dryad Arbor} 🌠 From the Vault: Realms 1 {Flooded Strand} 1 {Gaea's Cradle} 1 {Glacial Fortress} 🌠✒️ Magic 2010 1 {Hallowed Fountain} 1 {Hinterland Harbor} 🌠 Innistrad 1 {Horizon Canopy} 1 {Mistveil Plains} 🌠 Shadowmoor 1 {Misty Rainforest} 1 {Minamo, School at Water's Edge} 1 {Novijen, Heart of Progress} 🌠 Dissension 1 {Reflecting Pool} 1 {Stirring Wildwood} ✒️ 1 {Sunpetal Grove} 🌠 Magic 2011 1 {Temple of Enlightenment} 🌠 Born of the Gods 1 {Temple Garden} 1 {Temple of Plenty} 🌠 Born of the Gods 1 {Temple of Mystery}🌠 Magic 2015 Clash Pack 1 {Windswept Heath} 36 lands {1} {Noble Hierarch} 🌠 Conflux {2} {Bloom Tender} {2} {Coiling Oracle} 🌠 Arena Foil {2} {Gilded Drake} 🚫 {2} {Melira, Sylvok Outcast} {2} {Mistmeadow Witch} 🌠 Shadowmoor {2} {Qasali Pridemage} 🌠✒️ Alara Reborn {2} {Saffi Eriksdotter} {2} {Wall of Roots} 🌠 Friday Night Magic {3} {Eternal Witness} {3} {Farhaven Elf} {3} {Kitchen Finks} 🌠 Friday Night Magic {3} {Reclamation Sage} {3} {Wood Elves} 🌠 Gateway Foil {4} {Archaeomancer} 🌠 Magic 2014 {4} {Clever Impersonator} 🌠 Khans of Tarkir {4} {Glen Elendra Archmage} {4} {Nevermaker} 🌠 Morningtide {4} {Restoration Angel} 🌠 Launch Weekend Promo {4} {Spike Weaver} 🚫 {4} {Venser, Shaper Savant} 🌠✒️ From the Vault: Twenty {5} {Body Double} 🌠 Planar Chaos {5} {Karmic Guide} 🌠 Judge Foil {5} {Mulldrifter} 🌠 Friday Night Magic {5} {Perplexing Chimera} 🌠 Born of the Gods {5} {Prophet of Kruphix} 🌠 Magic 2015 Clash Pack {5} {Reveillark} 🌠 Modern Masters {5} {Seedborn Muse} {5} {Thragtusk} 🌠 Magic 2013 {6} {Bane of Progress} 🚫 {6} {Deadeye Navigator} {6} {Duplicant} {6} {Prime Speaker Zegana} {6} {Sun Titan} 🌠 Duel Deck Series {7} {Hornet Queen} 🌠 Magic 2015 {8} {Woodfall Primus} 36 creatures 1 {Bant Charm} 🌠 Shards of Alara 1 {Beast Within} 1 {Cataclysm} 1 {Chord of Calling} 1 {Cyclonic Rift} 1 {Eladamri's Call} 1 {Ghostly Flicker} 1 {Ghostway} 1 {Green Sun's Zenith} 🌠 From the Vault: Twenty 1 {Return to Dust} 🌠 Time Spiral 1 {Swords to Plowshares} 1 {Tooth and Nail} 1 {Worldly Tutor} 🚫 13 Instants/Sorceries 1 {Birthing Pod} 1 {Chromatic Lantern} 1 {Conjurer's Closet} 🌠 Avacyn Restored 1 {Lightning Greaves} 1 {Phyrexian Altar} 🚫 1 {Sensei's Divining Top} 1 {Sol Ring} 7  Artifacts 1 {Aura Shards} 1 {Song of the Dryads} 🚫 1 {Survival of the Fittest} 1 {Sylvan Library} 4 Enchantments 1 {Ajani, Mentor of Heroes} 1 {Garruk, Caller of Beasts} 1 {Venser, the Sojourner} 🌠✒️ Duel Deck Series 3 Planeswalkers 🌠 Denotes Foil 🚫 Denotes No Foil Version ✒️ Denotes Signed 🎨 Denotes Altered 📝 Deck Tech (http://imtgapp.com/forum/index.php?topic=39216.msg387344#msg387344) ⚠️ Updates and Revisions (http://imtgapp.com/forum/index.php?topic=39216.msg387372#msg387372) Storage: KMC Perfect Fits, KMC Hyper MAT (Green). Ultra Pro Satin Tower (Green).

Roon of the Hidden Realm
Roon is one of the most fun commanders to play with. This deck is designed to work off many different plans and loops. From {Survival of the Fittest}. {Melira} and persist creatures, a {Birthing Pod} curve and general blinky value cards. With so many options it's hard not to have fun piloting it. It can be played as an aggressive combo strategy, or sit back and play control. The choices can be complex at time, and there are far too many to list for each scenario. I've taken the time to set the Deck Tech into groups based on what they do generally, and what you should look out for in order to "go off". The plans are as follows:

Tutors > Infinite Combos > Table Flip
Tutors > Powerful creatures > Beat faces.
Blink Engines > Value > Win.
Blink Engines > Destroy all of your opponents lands > Butt hurt
Infinite Loops > Win
Prophet of Kruphix > Something crazy > Win
Deadeye Navigator > Card X > Win
Cataclysm > Blink your creatures > Win

Tutors
•  {Chord of Calling}
Instant speed tutor. The flexibility and power of this is great. Bring something in on an endstep, find a blocker, take advantage of the situation with an EtB ability.

•  {Eladamri's Call}
While it may not be easily repeatable (Could set-up an {Archaeomancer} loop), it's basically just a better {Worldly Tutor} for one more mana. This deck relies on having really strong tutors, and this qualifies.

•  {Green Sun's Zenith}
Green Sun's Zenith is married to cards like {Birthing Pod} because it relaunches your ladder, also it shuffles back into your library so you can use it some time down the line. Yes, it is probably weaker then {Chord of Calling}, it is not instant, only fetches green creatures. But it is cheaper and overall is an extremely strong card.

•  {Tooth and Nail}
Probably the greatest tutor of all time ({Defense of the Heart} gives it a run for it's money}). 9 mana = win the game. If you can't win with it, you've got a lot of learning to do.

•  {Worldly Tutor}
Super cheap, instant creature tutor. It gets you there most of the time. Depending on the game plan and boardstate you simply get the best creature you can.

•  {Birthing Pod}
The deck is built with the purpose of having answers for most anything at each CMC level. Birthing Pod allow you to climb up that ladder until our late-game finishers come down, while still keeping control of the board. Repeatable tutors are the bread and butter of this deck. It also enables dies/leaves play triggers, which is occasionally relevant with persist creatures and {Reveillark}.

•  {Survival of the Fittest}
{Fauna Shaman} is a tribute to this card. Same rules apply. Helps you win, repeatable tutor.

•  {Ajani, Mentor of Heroes}
Both of Ajani's first abilities are relevant. The first +1 ability powers up all of my creatures. Many of them are 2/2's and would benefit from the increased power. Also, my persist creatures have their -1/-1 cancelled out by it. The second +1 gives me card selection. While it may be 1 card, given the sheer number of tutors in the deck, and the fact the cards go back into my library, I can routinely gain access to them again. The ultimate will likely never be used.

•  {Garruk, Caller of Beasts}
This is the most recent addition to my deck, and I cut the almighty {Jace, the Mind Sculptor} for him. His high CMC masks one of the most powerful abilities in all of the deck. So good it's almost broken. His first ability could potentially be BETTER then {Ancestral Recall}. He has proven himself time and time again to be a nasty draw machine, pulling one or two creatures with consistency. His emblem breaks the game open, giving you a free {Tooth and Nail} ever time you cast a creature. The -3 is bananas too, but you already knew that.

Blinking Engines
•  {Roon of the Hidden Realm}
Roon is fairly costly at 5 mana, but he has one of the better repeatable blink effects in the game. He's also really not a bad creature. 4/4 with Trample and Vigilance is nice, and his awesome ability only costs {2}{T}. Bant has a wonderful selection of Enter the Battlefield (ETB) creatures. So if you're into fun blinky things Roon is just about the only option.

•  {Mistmeadow Witch}
The little engine that could. The blinking effect won't be the cheapest, but Mistmeadow can be value town.

•  {Restoration Angel}
Flickers all non-angel creatures. It's a great accessory to the deck. Super versatile as a flash blocker, something to get in the way, or just an exploitable target for blinking.

•  {Deadeye Navigator}
Best blink engine in the deck, without a doubt. Combos with everything in the deck, avoids almost any type of control. insane. If you can stick it with lands open you pretty much win. There are cards in this deck just to find him ({Fierce Empath}).

•  {Conjurer's Closet}
An extremely strong blinking engine that can get things rolling. Very efficient way reuse EtB abilities without having to pay casting costs, what we call "value". The return to the battlefield ability is instant.

•  {Venser, the Sojourner}
The second engine (primary) that gets the deck hooked up. Venser plays very nicely with the things we already are playing. Since our deck is loaded with guys like {Mulldrifter} and {Karmic Guide}, the Sojourner's Flicker ability already works quite well. Beyond enters-the-battlefield abuse, you can use it to reload the counters on a Planeswalker, untap an attacker post-combat to use as a blocker, reload the +1/+1 counters on a {Spike Weaver}, trigger {Aura Shards}, pull unfortunate Auras off your stuff, and so forth. And all of that synergy is packed in just his first ability. Doubles as a win-con. If you get a Venser emblem, you basically win. You can work that emblem all while getting crazy value out of your creatures. His second ability should not be overlooked also, it can be another win condition.


Enters the Battlefield Package
•  {Coiling Oracle}
Drawing Cards is good. Playing Lands is good. Coiling Oracle is valuable early game. Coiling Oracle is valuable mid-game. Coiling Oracle is valuable late game. Coiling Oracle is value.

•  {Gilded Drake}
For my money, Gilded Drake is probably the best "clone" type creature for this deck. The theory is simple, exchange it for their best creature, then blink it back under your control. Works great with {Venser, the Sojourner}. You get their creature straight up, it has an advantage over clones.

•  {Qasali Pridemage}
Destroying {Torpor Orb} is a meta everyone has to make. It's an absolutely horrid way to slow your deck down. It has to go at all costs, and Exalted isn't bad at all.

•  {Eternal Witness}
She is undoubtedly one of the strongest card ever printed for Green. Being able to get ANY card out of your graveyard for 3 mana is ridiculous. She can also be used in many loops that just make using it a blast. In a format where recursion is king she is the queen. Like I said before, graveyards are like second hands almost. {Eternal Witness}/{Archaeomancer} + {Venser, Shaper Savant} + {Ghostly Flicker} = Every {2}{U} can return a card to an opponents hand or knock out their permanents.

•  {Reclamation Sage}
In the end, despite all the crazy loops to look out for and shenanigans you can do, the only way to win is to beat your opponents. This deck is very good at getting rid of your opponents stuff over and over again - especially non-creatures. Resource denial is the most common way this deck can win. It should be used to hit stuff early game - even if it's just as simple as a mana rock, don't be afraid to cast it.

•  {Archaeomancer}
This card is actually better then {Snapcaster Mage} if you've got a way to flicker it. Snapcaster exiles the spell if you use the Flashback ability, and adds {1}{U} to recasting it. Archaeomancer on the other hand gives you the card back , so you can recast it at no extra cost, and repeat the cycle if you so choose

•  {Clever Impersonator}
The most flexible {Clone} ever printed. This card is the gold standard for clone effects. If you're running a clone type card, change it over to this. Enemy planeswalkers, enchantments, artifacts, anything but land. It even sneakily put Auras like {Pascifism} on Hexproof creatures ({Sun Titan} and {Copy Enchantment} have already been doing this, but...)

303.4f:
"If an Aura is entering the battlefield under a player's control by any means other than by resolving as an Aura spell, and the effect putting it onto the battlefield doesn't specify the object or player the Aura will enchant, that player chooses what it will enchant as the Aura enters the battlefield."

Choosing is not targeting. I cannot wait to rip all of the combinations possible with this now in my deck.

•  {Nevermaker}
Fits into the {Birthing Pod} curve rather nicely. It can  get rid of a pesky planeswalker / enchantment / artifact / indestructible thing and tuck a commander. Pretty profitable blocker too and cheaper then {Brutalizer Exarch}.

•  {Spike Weaver}
Spike Weaver seems like an odd choice, but it does find it's way on many Roon lists because the value is a bit more subtle then you might first realize. Spike Weaver is basically a {Fog} on a stick. Ordinarily {Fog} cards aren't generally useful, but in a multiplayer game it might just dissuade people from attacking. It helps against fast, aggressive Voltron decks and others that might ordinarily steamroll you. The other bonus is that his +1/+1 counter cancels out a -1/-1 counter, so the Persist guys can keep rolling. Blink him for a fresh set of counters.

•  {Venser, Shaper Savant}
A {Boomerang} or {Remand}? Does it really matter? Didn't think so.

•  {Acidic Slime}
Resource denial is a powerful tool. The goal of the deck is to keep pressing my opponents by making them answer my threats.

•  {Body Double}
Recusion and a clone effect. Part of making that Graveyard act as second hand, and also all of the synergies. Too many to list, but Body Double combos with a lot of things.

•  {Mulldrifter}
Draw all of the cards!

•  {Perplexing Chimera}
Same principal as {Gilded Drake} but for works for spells too! It can steal just about anything, including any spell that wishes to destroy it. I love this card, it frequently holds the board down for me.

•  {Prophet of Kruphix}
This is how you turn things up to the next level. All your creatures become disruption or card advantage. Easily one of the three best cards in the deck, and almost always the first thing you tutor for any time after early game. It is just doesn't have any weaknesses for this type of deck, AND combos with {Reveillark} (but what doesn't?)

•  {Seedborn Muse}
Seedborn is arguably more powerful then Prophet, but arguably less powerful. It untaps artifacts, which tend to be more powerful in some decks. I have {Gilded Lotus} and {Sol Ring}, which is nice to have untap. Also, what could be wrong with another Prophet? Also, you won't believe this but...its combos with {Reveillark}.

•  {Bane of Progress}
This is like hitting the big ol' reset button. I think this is a meta call, and I sort of included it in the deck to combat my Oloro Stax (http://imtgapp.com/forum/index.php?topic=35948.0) deck..

•  {Duplicant}
I like this card because it exiles their biggest threat. With all the ETB enablers that are in the deck, it can become a seriously deadly weapon.

•  {Prime Speaker Zegana}
Draw all of the cards 2.0! Fun to abuse.

•  {Sun Titan}
A big body that recurs a good amount of utility cards and fetch lands. Plays well with plenty of cards in the deck and combos with {Saffi Ericksdotter}.

•  {Hornet Queen}
The newest finisher in the deck, the Queen of Hornets is built 100% around finishing the game for me. The tokens can work as blockers, she can be blinked to rapidly produce an army of super deadly bees. She can produce a complete {Stasis} with a reliable blink engine.


Mana Accelerators
•  {Noble Hierarch}, {Bloom Tender}, {Farhaven Elf}, {Wood Elves}, {Chromatic Lantern} and {Sol Ring}


Loops
{Birthing pod}: 3-Drop + {Venser, Shaper Savant} + {Roon of the Hidden Realm}/Bounce Spell
Active {Birthing Pod} into {Venser, Shaper Savant}. Bounce an opponents land or whichever threat.
Next turn, pod Venser into {Karmic Guide} which you use to bring back Venser.
Next turn, Do not pay the Echo cost on {Karmic Guide} let it die. Pod Venser and grab {Body Double}. Have Body Double clone Karmic Guide which you use to get {Karmic Guide}. Repeat previous step.
Next turn, Do not pay the Echo cost on {Karmic Guide} or {Body Double}. Pod Venser into {Reveillark}. Use Roon/Bounce on Reveillark to get back Venser and Body Double as whatever you're into.

{Phyrexian Atlar}: {Reveillark} + {Karmic Guide} + {Saffi Eriksdotter}
Sacrifice Saffi, targetting Reveillark. Sacrifice Karmic Guide to your Phyrexian Altar. Sacrifice Reveilark to Phyrexian Altar. Reveilark brings back Saffi and Guide, Guide brings back whatever you would like. Everyone's graveyard is at your disposal. 

{Phyrexian Altar}: {Melira, Sylvok Outcast} + Persist Creatures
The synergy here is pretty obvious. Persist creatures leave the battlefield and come back with a -1/-1 counter on them. If they die with that counter on them, they go to graveyard. But what if they never got that -1/-1 counter? They could be reanimated indefinitely. Melira keeps that counter from staying on them. So all you'd need is a {Phyrexian Altar}/{Blasting Station}/{Ashnod's Altar} type card to get the infinite chain going! I picked {Phyrexian Altar} because I want my infinite combo to give me infinite mana too, why not? :)

•  {Kitchen Finks}
Finks fits right into the {Birthing Pod} curve, gets you some life (not all that meaningful in EDH). I like the versatility, good body with a fair mana cost. Combos with Melira for infinite life.

•  {Glen Elendra Archmage}
{Negate} on a stick here. It's even great with {Deadeye Navigator} and other blinky things. It's a wonderful tool to have at your disposal.

•  {Woodfall Primus}
The big question is: "Why not {Terastodon}?". There are several reasons, but one of the most compelling ones is the Persist on {Woodfall Primus}. He's got a better body, interacts with Melira, and doesn't give any sort of advantage away. Also, I have {Angel of Serenity} which sort of acts like {Terastodon}.
⚠️Use with caution: There is no "MAY" clause. If you put his ability on the stack too much you'll have to target your own permanents.⚠️

Top 5
5. {Birthing Pod}
4. {Venser, the Sojourner}
3. {Prophet of Kruphix}
2. {Phyrexian Altar}
1. {Survival of the Fittest}

Updates and Revisions
7/14/14
➖{Jace, the Mind Sculptor} ➕{Garruk, Caller of Beasts}
➖{Thousand Year Elixir} ➕{Gilded Lotus}

7/17/14
➖{Harmonic Sliver} ➕{Reclamation Sage}
➖{Plains} ➕{Dryad Arbor}

8/1/14
➖{Mystical Tutor} ➕{Bant Charm}

8/25/14
➖{Tawnos's Coffin} ➕{Cataclysm}

8/28/14
➖{High Market} ➕{Novijen, Heart of Progress}

10/18/14
➖{Progenitor Mimic} ➕{Chord of Calling}

10/28/14
➖{Solemn Simulacrum} ➕{Mistmeadow Witch}
➖{Brutalizer Exarch} ➕{Nevermaker}
➖{Angel of Serenity} ➕{Hornet Queen}
➖{Nature's Lore} ➕{Worldly Tutor}

10/31/14
➖{Fauna Shaman} ➕{Meddling Mage}
➖{Wargate} ➕{Ajani, Mentor of Heroes}

11/2/14
➖{Austere Command} ➕{Krosan Verge}
➖{Gilded Lotus} ➕{Chromatic Lantern}

11/13/14
➖{Tropical Island} ➕{Minamo, School at Water's Edge}
➖{Meddling Mage} ➕{Wall of Roots}
➖{Acidic Slime} ➕{Thragtusk}
➖{Phyrexian Metamorph} ➕{Song of the Dryads}
➖{Seaside Citadel} ➕{Temple of Enlightenment}
➖{Krosan Verge} ➕{Temple of Plenty}
➖{Savanna} ➕{Temple of Mystery}
➖{Tundra} ➕{Mistveil Plains}

Playtesting
{Acidic Slime}
{Angel of Finality}
{Angel of Serenity}
{Congregation at Dawn}
{Flickerwisp}
{Meddling Mage}
{Riftsweeper}
{Sunblast Angel}
{Trostani's Summoner}
{Voice of Resurgence}
{Wargate}

All done methinks

I would replace {harmonic sliver} with M15's {reclamation sage}. Easier to cast, 1 more power, and doesn't get exploited by opposing sliver decks :p

Quote from: Gocougs509 on July 16, 2014, 10:36:31 PM
I would replace {harmonic sliver} with M15's {reclamation sage}. Easier to cast, 1 more power, and doesn't get exploited by opposing sliver decks :p

Wow...it's like strictly better. Thanks a bunch. And the "MAY" clause is always nice.

The new Angel. {Resolute Archangel} or something. You can blink her whenever you need a life reset

+1 for that name :P

Quote from: Munchlax on July 18, 2014, 12:24:47 AM
The new Angel. {Resolute Archangel} or something. You can blink her whenever you need a life reset

I was thinking this,  but she us horribly weak for the CMC

Quote from: Dudecore on July 18, 2014, 07:56:42 PM

Quote from: Munchlax on July 18, 2014, 12:24:47 AM
The new Angel. {Resolute Archangel} or something. You can blink her whenever you need a life reset

I was thinking this,  but she us horribly weak for the CMC

But the life!!!

Quote from: Munchlax on July 19, 2014, 02:31:13 PM

Quote from: Dudecore on July 18, 2014, 07:56:42 PM

Quote from: Munchlax on July 18, 2014, 12:24:47 AM
The new Angel. {Resolute Archangel} or something. You can blink her whenever you need a life reset

I was thinking this,  but she us horribly weak for the CMC

But the life!!!

I agree. It's a nice piece of tech to have in a tool box. It's just sorta weak for the CMC. In the 7 slot I have {Angel of Serenity}. I picked up a prerelease {Resolute Angel} to play test with. I just feel like it falls into that "101st card" territory. I will play test it Wednesday night at my LGS.

I like {Bant Charm} for annoying commanders.

Quote from: E.kann1 on July 19, 2014, 10:22:46 PM
I like {Bant Charm} for annoying commanders.

What would you suggest I drop for it?

Quote from: Dudecore on July 19, 2014, 11:48:19 PM

Quote from: E.kann1 on July 19, 2014, 10:22:46 PM
I like {Bant Charm} for annoying commanders.

What would you suggest I drop for it?

Bant charm definitely deserves a spot in any deck that can play it. It is amazing. I can see a few cards that I might consider cutting, but ultimately you will just have to decide which cards don't quite perform to your standard in order to make room for it :p

{Clever Impersonator} coming soon. What goes? I'm thinking {Fierce Empath}

Fierce empath is probably a fair choice.

Also, this;

Quote from: E.kann1 on July 18, 2014, 06:14:19 PM
+1 for that name :P

Have you thought about running {hokori dust drinker}? Flicker him on someone's end step to lock down to board, except for yourself.

Quote from: Hexproof_is_the_best on October 26, 2014, 12:27:35 PM
Have you thought about running {hokori dust drinker}? Flicker him on someone's end step to lock down to board, except for yourself.

I haven't considered it. But will now! I'm having such difficulty cutting things from this toolbox. I spent 2 hours trying to fit {Chord of Calling} in here. I eventually cut {Acidic Slime} and still don't agree with it.

{Mangara, of Corondor } is good
Actuvate her ability and blink it. Other thing still gets exiled but Mangara is ok

Maybe Ditch Reclemation sage for Mangara because she does the same thing but slightly better

Quote from: Dudecore on October 26, 2014, 12:32:44 PM

Quote from: Hexproof_is_the_best on October 26, 2014, 12:27:35 PM
Have you thought about running {hokori dust drinker}? Flicker him on someone's end step to lock down to board, except for yourself.

I haven't considered it. But will now! I'm having such difficulty cutting things from this toolbox. I spent 2 hours trying to fit {Chord of Calling} in here. I eventually cut {Acidic Slime} and still don't agree with it.

Wait, you CUT acidic slime?! It's so good with deadeye!

Quote from: Hexproof_is_the_best on October 26, 2014, 09:11:58 PM

Quote from: Dudecore on October 26, 2014, 12:32:44 PM

Quote from: Hexproof_is_the_best on October 26, 2014, 12:27:35 PM
Have you thought about running {hokori dust drinker}? Flicker him on someone's end step to lock down to board, except for yourself.

I haven't considered it. But will now! I'm having such difficulty cutting things from this toolbox. I spent 2 hours trying to fit {Chord of Calling} in here. I eventually cut {Acidic Slime} and still don't agree with it.

Wait, you CUT acidic slime?! It's so good with deadeye!

I know, right? And it works with {Reveillark}!

Getting extremely tempted to switch my derevi Random Good Bant Stuff to this. What about {voidslime}?

Quote from: Dudecore on October 26, 2014, 09:30:51 PM

Quote from: Hexproof_is_the_best on October 26, 2014, 09:11:58 PM

Quote from: Dudecore on October 26, 2014, 12:32:44 PM

Quote from: Hexproof_is_the_best on October 26, 2014, 12:27:35 PM
Have you thought about running {hokori dust drinker}? Flicker him on someone's end step to lock down to board, except for yourself.

I haven't considered it. But will now! I'm having such difficulty cutting things from this toolbox. I spent 2 hours trying to fit {Chord of Calling} in here. I eventually cut {Acidic Slime} and still don't agree with it.

Wait, you CUT acidic slime?! It's so good with deadeye!

I know, right? And it works with {Reveillark}!

Ohhhhh! I've never done that! It works really well of you karmic guide / reveillark / sac outlet too

{Palinchron} is sooo good with {deadeye combo-enabler}

Infinite mana is fun.

Yeah, I'm sort of over the {Palinchron} thing. It's cool for someone else to add if they're interested. There are so many possibilities that making good cuts are extremely painstaking.

How about {voidslime}?

I know -.-

Listen, there are some awesome cards. But I need help making cuts if I'm going to add such cool stuff. Some things are Meta calls, but overall I'd like to improve my versitility. If you've a suggestion, include a cut. It's so difficult for me to figure out what to drop and nothing stands out as an Auto-include.

I'd cut far haven elf for hokori or acidic slime

I just noticed this runs Perplexing Chimera. That makes me so happy xD

Quote from: E.kann1 on October 27, 2014, 06:57:50 PM
I just noticed this runs Perplexing Chimera. That makes me so happy xD

It's REALLY good in roon too.

Quote from: E.kann1 on October 27, 2014, 06:57:50 PM
I just noticed this runs Perplexing Chimera. That makes me so happy xD

{Perplexing Chimera} is a must in the deck. It's the {Gilded Drake} for spells. Plus, you can just blink it back once you exchange it.

Quote from: Hexproof_is_the_best on October 27, 2014, 05:17:24 PM
I'd cut far haven elf for hokori or acidic slime

I can envision bringing back {Acidic Slime}. {Hokori, Dust Drinker} is kinda just too narrowish for me. I need to have a blink engine or some other cards to not be hosed by it completely. But it is a potential Wincon. I can't exactly cut a 3-drop right now. Its getting too top heavy.

Quote from: Dudecore on October 27, 2014, 08:47:10 PM

Quote from: E.kann1 on October 27, 2014, 06:57:50 PM
I just noticed this runs Perplexing Chimera. That makes me so happy xD

{Perplexing Chimera} is a must in the deck. It's the {Gilded Drake} for spells. Plus, you can just blink it back once you exchange it.

Quote from: Hexproof_is_the_best on October 27, 2014, 05:17:24 PM
I'd cut far haven elf for hokori or acidic slime

I can envision bringing back {Acidic Slime}. {Hokori, Dust Drinker} is kinda just too narrowish for me. I need to have a blink engine or some other cards to not be hosed by it completely. But it is a potential Wincon. I can't exactly cut a 3-drop right now. Its getting too top heavy.

If you're cutting something with 8 CMC it should be wood fall primus, it's good but 8 mana.. If you like it though, progenitor mimic seems meh

Quote from: Hexproof_is_the_best on October 27, 2014, 09:00:17 PM

Quote from: Dudecore on October 27, 2014, 08:47:10 PM

Quote from: E.kann1 on October 27, 2014, 06:57:50 PM
I just noticed this runs Perplexing Chimera. That makes me so happy xD

{Perplexing Chimera} is a must in the deck. It's the {Gilded Drake} for spells. Plus, you can just blink it back once you exchange it.

Quote from: Hexproof_is_the_best on October 27, 2014, 05:17:24 PM
I'd cut far haven elf for hokori or acidic slime

I can envision bringing back {Acidic Slime}. {Hokori, Dust Drinker} is kinda just too narrowish for me. I need to have a blink engine or some other cards to not be hosed by it completely. But it is a potential Wincon. I can't exactly cut a 3-drop right now. Its getting too top heavy.

If you're cutting something with 8 CMC it should be wood fall primus, it's good but 8 mana.. If you like it though, progenitor mimic seems meh

Mimic can get out of hand and is sorta fun, gets recursion with {Sun Titan}, {Reveillark} and others. But you're probably right. How many clones does 1 deck even need? It'll be gone and return {Acidic Slime}

Will you update the list? I'd like to use it for reference in case I try to build Roon.

Quote from: E.kann1 on October 27, 2014, 10:08:09 PM
Will you update the list? I'd like to use it for reference in case I try to build Roon.

Updated. Added {Mistmeadow Witch} and {Acidic Slime}.

-{nature's lore}
+{voidslime}?

Quote from: E.kann1 on October 28, 2014, 05:55:37 PM
-{nature's lore}
+{voidslime}?

Is don't run any counters as it stands. I could do {Mystic Snake} or something. I don't think {Voidslime} is better then {Mana Drain} or anything.

Mystic snake is cool. I just like voidslime since I have one, and I don't have a mana drain... 😜

I want to add {Ajani, Mentor of Heroes}, need a cut.

Also, I think {Hornet Queen} is a better finisher then {Angel of Serenity}. It's got 2 power so that's {Reveillark} territory, it's green so {Garruk, Caller of Beasts} abilities care about it. {Green Sun's Zenith} cares about it. Whatcha'll think?

Quote from: Dudecore on October 30, 2014, 11:22:09 PM
I want to add {Ajani, Mentor of Heroes}, need a cut.

Also, I think {Hornet Queen} is a better finisher then {Angel of Serenity}. It's got 2 power so that's {Reveillark} territory, it's green so {Garruk, Caller of Beasts} abilities care about it. {Gteen Sun's Zenith} cares about it. Whatcha'll think?

Yeah {hornet queen} over {angel of serenity}.

Quote from: Dudecore on October 30, 2014, 11:22:09 PM
I want to add {Ajani, Mentor of Heroes}, need a cut.

Also, I think {Hornet Queen} is a better finisher then {Angel of Serenity}. It's got 2 power so that's {Reveillark} territory, it's green so {Garruk, Caller of Beasts} abilities care about it. {Green Sun's Zenith} cares about it. Whatcha'll think?

Again, I'll suggest {natures lore}, but I'm usually too quick to cut mana ramp, so that may be a bad idea.

Cut {nature's lore} for {Worldly Tutor}. Considering cutting Worldly Tutor for {Ajani, Mentor of Heroes}.

Is {archeomancer} so useful with thats ozone what  little amount of noncreature spells?

What about {Thragtusk}?

I've cut a lot of ramp at this point. I'm thinking of turning my curve down a bit. I mean, isn't {Acidic Slime} just {Harmonic Sliver}/{Reclamation Sage} with land destruction? One costs 5, the others cost 3.

Quote from: DylanW18 on October 31, 2014, 06:01:24 PM
What about {Thragtusk}?

I love {Thragtusk}. I'm beginning to see a need to cut out my Persist package. The problem is that is what makes my list unique compared to other Roon toolbox decks. I would really dislike losing that identity. My idea right now is:

➖ {Melira, Sylvok Outcast} ➕ {Meddling Mage}
➖ {Kitchen Finks} ➕ {Flickerwisp}
➖ {Woodfall Primus} ➕ {Angel of Serenity}
➖ {Acidic Slime} ➕ {Harmonic Sliver}
➖ {Phyrexian Altar} ➕ {Path to Exile}

Quote from: E.kann1 on October 31, 2014, 05:19:30 PM
Is {archeomancer} so useful with thats ozone what  little amount of noncreature spells?

I would sooner keep {Archaeomancer} and cut {Sun Titan} to be honest with you. The whole deck might need some revision with the newly spoiled {Containment Priest}. It basically has to be dealt with, or else chokes out the entire deck I'm playing. Add that to {Torpor Orb} and {Humility}, I'm doomed. :P

{Containment Priest} does allow Roon to {2}{T}: Exile target creature. It can work out to stack triggers too. I could exile their Priest on their endstep, blink my creature on my turn, then stack the triggers so my stuff comes back before theirs. Basically {Meddling Mage} needs to come in, this card needs to be dead :P

I've never updated a decklist more in my life. I kinda just built this deck and forgot about it. I've removed tons of cards in the past week.

Can one single card require a whole deck to be rebuilt?

Quote from: E.kann1 on October 31, 2014, 09:47:06 PM
Can one single card require a whole deck to be rebuilt?

Nope. This is EDH afterall. I just need to rethink some things. Cards like {Containment Priest} are good for.the format, shakes up some things. :)

I look forward to the challenges and opportunities to play against that card. Basically {Roon of the Hidden Realm} turns into an unconditional "exile target creature" pretty cheaply. My {Clever Impersonator} can copy their copy, blink theirs to exile it, then blink mine to be something else.

In my younger days this card would have angered me greatly. Today, I consider it a wonderful challenge to overcome and appreciate cards that force players off pretty direct, linear "build around me" EDH decks. Like {Arcane Lighthouse}. Hell, I might even just put a copy of {Containment Priest} in Roon because it shuts off {Kaalia of the Vast}, {Sneak Attack}, and Reanimator.

So why take out the birthing pod package? I don't understand :P

Quote from: E.kann1 on November 01, 2014, 12:26:50 AM
So why take out the birthing pod package? I don't understand :P

Not the {Birthing Pod} package. The Persist package based around going infinite with {Melira, Sylvok Outcast} and {Phyrexian Altar}. Just kicking the idea around as a way to add some more cards I'd like.

Ah, I see.

Seems like 35 lands is a little low. Is that just me? I assume it works or you'd have changed it by now, but how often do you have to mulligan for lands?

Well it's more then 33% of the deck. Most of my hands are 2 landers, cheap tutors and other things can get me there. It's not perfect, but counting my mana symbols I need 18 green sources, 9 white and 8 blue. Which I got pretty much nailed down.

Edit: added a land to keep things interesting.

Why cut {wargate}? Ajani is good at digging for things but wargate is better at it. :P

{Wargate} is super slow. It's a pain to get that much mana, then to make it all 3 colors. {Ajani, Mentor of Heroes} just seems better.

I find it useful for grabbing combo pieces when I've tested with it.

Quote from: E.kann1 on November 03, 2014, 08:30:52 PM
I find it useful for grabbing combo pieces when I've tested with it.

I've got 1 non-creature combo piece: {Phyrexian Altar} and like 900 creature tutors.

Quote from: Dudecore on November 03, 2014, 08:35:32 PM

Quote from: E.kann1 on November 03, 2014, 08:30:52 PM
I find it useful for grabbing combo pieces when I've tested with it.

I've got 1 non-creature combo piece: {Phyrexian Altar} and like 900 creature tutors.

Well that is what I got :P

Quote from: E.kann1 on November 04, 2014, 08:28:10 PM

Quote from: Dudecore on November 03, 2014, 08:35:32 PM

Quote from: E.kann1 on November 03, 2014, 08:30:52 PM
I find it useful for grabbing combo pieces when I've tested with it.

I've got 1 non-creature combo piece: {Phyrexian Altar} and like 900 creature tutors.

Well that is what I got :P

You can run {Trinket Mage} and do the same thing, and also grab {Sol Ring}, {Sensei's Diving Top}. I mean, I could too, but you know what I mean.

Quote from: Dudecore on November 04, 2014, 10:35:27 PM

Quote from: E.kann1 on November 04, 2014, 08:28:10 PM

Quote from: Dudecore on November 03, 2014, 08:35:32 PM

Quote from: E.kann1 on November 03, 2014, 08:30:52 PM
I find it useful for grabbing combo pieces when I've tested with it.

I've got 1 non-creature combo piece: {Phyrexian Altar} and like 900 creature tutors.

Well that is what I got :P

You can run {Trinket Mage} and do the same thing, and also grab {Sol Ring}, {Sensei's Diving Top}. I mean, I could too, but you know what I mean.

Well I'm assuming Ajani is in for the tutor aspect since neither of the other two modes help you very much. And as you said, you already have 900 creature tutors. So maybe something else would be better? {garruk wildspeaker}? Good jace? {thragtusk}? (I like that one a lot!)

{Meddling Mage} is in. Ajani's first mode is actually similar to {Melira, Sylvok Outcast} and {Novijen, Heart of Progress}. Gets rid of -1/-1 counters. Plus it makes things bigger, which is helpful for when I actually have to start winning a game.

I actually noticed it was there and edited with a few suggestions.

Thragusk? Plz? :P

Quote from: E.kann1 on November 05, 2014, 10:29:50 PM
Thragusk? Plz? :P

Big Jace was in it. He got replaced by {Garruk, Caller of Beasts}. Garruk is better, {Jace, the Mind Sculptor} dies pretty easily and brainstorms 2 cards. Garruk draws more.

{Garruk Wildspeaker} is completely out of place..I mean it doesn't so much of anything.

If {Thragtusk} comes in that means some other 5+ drop comes out. It's just the nature of how the deck has been progressing. Less huge CMC stuff, more lower curve action.

Love the effort you put into this :)

Curve-wise I was suggesting -ajani +thragtusk, but I see how ajani could be useful in this deck more than I did before.

Is {spike weaver} just there to fog forever?

Quote from: E.kann1 on November 06, 2014, 06:55:27 AM
Is {spike weaver} just there to fog forever?

yep. He's REALLY good at it. But removing him would be an illegal move, because you want to replace it with a higher CMC creature. The only real move would be a lateral move to drop {Acidic Slime} for {Thragtusk}.

Oh, that was just a question in general. Not necessarily to replace thragtusk with.

Quote from: E.kann1 on November 06, 2014, 06:46:47 PM
Oh, that was just a question in general. Not necessarily to replace thragtusk with.

Yup. TurboFog machine. He's one of my favorites. I've been kicking it around, the {Melira, Sylvok Outcast} stuff probably has to go. :(

Tentative:
➖ {Melira, Sylvok Outcast} ➕ {Bant Panorama}
➖ {Kitchen Finks} ➕ {Mangara of Corondor}
➖ {Woodfall Primus} ➕ {Thragtusk}
➖ {Phyrexian Altar} ➕ {Path to Exile}
➖ {Gilded Lotus} ➕ {Chromatic Lantern}

Adding in so many lands. Why? Also {coalition relic}?

Also when you get a chance could you update the main decklist?

Quote from: E.kann1 on November 06, 2014, 09:03:59 PM
Adding in so many lands. Why? Also {coalition relic}?

Also when you get a chance could you update the main decklist?

Adding lands just cause I guess. And the decklist will be updated if I go through with it. Which it's entirely possible I might back out :P

Quote from: Dudecore on November 06, 2014, 09:11:01 PM

Quote from: E.kann1 on November 06, 2014, 09:03:59 PM
Adding in so many lands. Why? Also {coalition relic}?

Also when you get a chance could you update the main decklist?

Adding lands just cause I guess. And the decklist will be updated if I go through with it. Which it's entirely possible I might back out :P

Awesome :) thanks. This is very useful as I begin to work on my own version of Roon (which may be coincidentally similar to yours... :P )

Looking forward to seeing your list. There are a lot of bant colored blinky things to choose from.

It will most likely be your list but bugetified a bit.

Quote from: E.kann1 on November 07, 2014, 02:39:02 PM
It will most likely be your list but bugetified a bit.

There is lots of Budgeting that could be done. Thinkin of dropping {Mulldrifter} for {Wall of Blossoms}

Why? Flyers are nice, and drawing lots of cards is good especially if someone kills it before you get to blink it too often. I'd keep the mulldrifter, or just have both.

It's so frustrating sometimes, trying to optimize a list. There are so many ways to take the deck. I can cut tutors and add more card draw, I can cut card draw and add more ramp. It's like Ohms Law with Magic Cards.

Increase ramp, increase tutors, decrease draw
Increase draw, increase ramp, decrease tutors

Quote from: Dudecore on November 07, 2014, 05:52:17 PM
It's so frustrating sometimes, trying to optimize a list. There are so many ways to take the deck. I can cut tutors and add more card draw, I can cut card draw and add more ramp. It's like Ohms Law with Magic Cards.

Increase ramp, increase tutors, decrease draw
Increase draw, increase ramp, decrease tutors

Is it even possible to optimize and EDH list? There's so much variance in singleton...

It's right about where I want it. The {Swagtusk} and every other changes I've been pondering are on hold. More focus on my {Sedris, the Traitor King} deck.

I feel like I agree with taking out the Birthing Pod package and adding in other fun stuff.

Quote from: E.kann1 on November 07, 2014, 07:16:29 PM
I feel like I agree with taking out the Birthing Pod package and adding in other fun stuff.

Birthing Pod package is like 99% of why the deck works. It can't go :P

But now its in your hands. Make the best Roon toolbox deck your budget can buy.

Sorry, I meant the Melira package. Pod is synonymous with Melira from too much modern :P currently. Ok, I'll leave yours alone and go build my deck ;)

I wish I could run a simulation to see who draws more cards {Prime Speaker Zegana} or {Fathom Mage}. Most of my creatures are 2/2's, and Fathom Mage can trigger a bunch with blinkyness.

Alright E.Kann, and other interested parties. This is my final list for now. Focus is going toward Sedris, the Traitor King (http://imtgapp.com/forum/index.php?topic=40729.0). I cut 2 creatures, added a land and {Song of the Dryads} finally. Lemme know what you all think.

So many lands! I think you were ok with 36.

Ahh!!! No acidic slime! How could you?!?! 😜

Quote from: E.kann1 on November 13, 2014, 09:43:46 PM
Ahh!!! No acidic slime! How could you?!?! 😜

{Thragtusk}. Not that I think it's much better, {Acidic Slime} is legit.

I also really like the scry lands in these mid-range decks. So I broke a rule I have about basics to jam them.

Cut a land for acidic slime, and maybe put voice back in is my opinion.

Quote from: E.kann1 on November 13, 2014, 10:50:44 PM
Cut a land for acidic slime, and maybe put voice back in is my opinion.

Compromise with a land cut and brought back Voice. That's it! No more. Deck is on hold until.the next set, where I'll revisit it (like I do all of my decks)

But acidic slime!

Quote from: E.kann1 on November 14, 2014, 07:07:05 AM
But acidic slime!

Still be there next revision. Time to put this on ice for now.

Selling {Tundra}, {Savannah} and {Tropical Island} for Dual lands for a future deck OR an {Oloro, Ageless Ascetic} -> {Zurgo Helmsmasher} conversion. Jury is still out. This list reflects the current changes.

That's what I did, replace the ABUR duals with temples.

Quote from: E.kann1 on November 16, 2014, 10:55:36 AM
That's what I did, replace the ABUR duals with temples.

I borrowed an idea from you. :)

The truth of the matter is, while I like this deck a lot, it's not my main squeeze. I'll borrow pieces from this from time to time to bolster my other decks. I think the Temples are super good in mid-rangey decks. Also, I was staying up late at night thinking about all of the basics I cut for them. At the end of the day, if I plan to convert my 97% foiled Oloro deck suddenly to a {Zurgo Helmsmasher} deck - I ought to be able to convert it to 97% or greater foils. I need some cash to do that.

Quote from: Dudecore on November 16, 2014, 11:01:20 AM

Quote from: E.kann1 on November 16, 2014, 10:55:36 AM
That's what I did, replace the ABUR duals with temples.

I borrowed an idea from you. :)

That's a first 😜

Quote from: E.kann1 on November 16, 2014, 11:23:47 AM

Quote from: Dudecore on November 16, 2014, 11:01:20 AM

Quote from: E.kann1 on November 16, 2014, 10:55:36 AM
That's what I did, replace the ABUR duals with temples.

I borrowed an idea from you. :)

That's a first 😜

Here's one for you - add {Mistveil Plains}. It's got a Plains subtype, so it's fetchable, and with the amount of tutors you can just go grab things you pitch to {Survival of the Fittest}.

Quote from: Dudecore on November 16, 2014, 11:46:39 AM

Quote from: E.kann1 on November 16, 2014, 11:23:47 AM

Quote from: Dudecore on November 16, 2014, 11:01:20 AM

Quote from: E.kann1 on November 16, 2014, 10:55:36 AM
That's what I did, replace the ABUR duals with temples.

I borrowed an idea from you. :)

That's a first 😜

Here's one for you - add {Mistveil Plains}. It's got a Plains subtype, so it's fetchable, and with the amount of tutors you can just go grab things you pitch to {Survival of the Fittest}.

I put it in my possible additions list already, after I checked your change log :P

Quote from: Dudecore on November 16, 2014, 11:01:20 AM

Quote from: E.kann1 on November 16, 2014, 10:55:36 AM
That's what I did, replace the ABUR duals with temples.

I borrowed an idea from you. :)

The truth of the matter is, while I like this deck a lot, it's not my main squeeze. I'll borrow pieces from this from time to time to bolster my other decks. I think the Temples are super good in mid-rangey decks. Also, I was staying up late at night thinking about all of the basics I cut for them. At the end of the day, if I plan to convert my 97% foiled Oloro deck suddenly to a {Zurgo Helmsmasher} deck - I ought to be able to convert it to 97% or greater foils. I need some cash to do that.

Yaaaay to zurgo! The deck is awesome, but I do have some questions as I have a hard time figuring out what to tutor for most of the time

Just commenting to re-mention how awesome hokori is in this deck.

Quote from: Hexproof_is_the_best on November 24, 2014, 04:30:08 PM
Just commenting to re-mention how awesome hokori is in this deck.

I agree theoretically, but I'm moving more toward cards that are just good, and don't need other cards to be good. {Hokori, Dust Drinker} needs a blink engine to produce value. Contending with so many sweepers and spot removal and everything else, I can't reliably say "when I draw this card, it does X for me." Which is why {Riftsweeper} has been failing miserably at Playtesting when in theory it is borderline broken.

I can build a second deck out of all the cards that fit the "doesn't do enough right away" catagory.

I'll let you know how Hokori does when I play it. :)

Quote from: E.kann1 on November 25, 2014, 10:24:12 PM
I'll let you know how Hokori does when I play it. :)

I can already have a pretty good vision of how it's going to play out.

I ran into this problem with {Riftsweeper}. I got the Hype train going full speed in my brain when I was looking at it. I was like "yeah I've got a billion tutors so I'll just get my cards back" and "it only costs 2 mana, this is my jam right here". Then I went deep like "I can tuck my opponents general back into their deck, this is going to be siiiicccckkkk". Then I played it and was like "when will I ever use this? When I'm ahead on board?" To "Riftsweeper is easily my worst out right now..."

Quote from: Dudecore on November 25, 2014, 10:39:33 PM

Quote from: E.kann1 on November 25, 2014, 10:24:12 PM
I'll let you know how Hokori does when I play it. :)

I can already have a pretty good vision of how it's going to play out.

I ran into this problem with {Riftsweeper}. I got the Hype train going full speed in my brain when I was looking at it. I was like "yeah I've got a billion tutors so I'll just get my cards back" and "it only costs 2 mana, this is my jam right here". Then I went deep like "I can tuck my opponents general back into their deck, this is going to be siiiicccckkkk". Then I played it and was like "when will I ever use this? When I'm ahead on board?" To "Riftsweeper is easily my worst out right now..."

I dunno. Hokori just totally stops your opponents if you play it at the right time, and lets you just sit there and leave up two mana every turn to flicker on your opponents end step.

Sorry to Necra the thread but what about {Brago, King Eternal}?

He has to connect to blink creatures. Lots of work to clear the board so a 2/4 flier can get in unchecked.