I overheard on MaRo's Zendikar podcast that the spell lands they had come up with(i.e. {Teetering Peaks} couldn't have that much versatility, it couldn't be a spell and a land. So, I came up with this concept for a spell land:
Thunderspine Knoll {U}{R}
Land-Instant
Thunderspine Knoll enters the battlefield tapped.
{T}: Add {U} or {R} to your mana pool.
Thunderspine Knoll deals 2 damage divided among any number of target creatures and/or players.Draw a card(Ignore this effect if you played this card as a land.)
I had a similar idea for JIN, but as Enchantment Lands... and I guess it was brought up in development, but they decided against it since {Dryad Arbor} causes enough confusion as it is...
Quote from: rarehuntertay on July 06, 2014, 11:07:29 AM
I had a similar idea for JIN, but as Enchantment Lands... and I guess it was brought up in development, but they decided against it since {Dryad Arbor} causes enough confusion as it is...
It's a land that you play that can block and tap for mana? Or can it attack as well?
Quote from: TreeSmoker on July 06, 2014, 11:10:54 AM
Quote from: rarehuntertay on July 06, 2014, 11:07:29 AM
I had a similar idea for JIN, but as Enchantment Lands... and I guess it was brought up in development, but they decided against it since {Dryad Arbor} causes enough confusion as it is...
It's a land that you play that can block and tap for mana? Or can it attack as well?
It's a land creature. Same idea as an enchantment creature. Everything a land can do, it can. Everything a creature can do, it can.
So as I understand it, it's an instant that could instead be played as a land. Do you have to pay the {R}{U} to play the land? If you cast it as an instant an you get it as a land and/or tap it on the stack? This seems confusing. Combining permanents and non-permanents is strange. Seems like a Future Sight thing to me.
Quote from: The1337Magician on July 06, 2014, 11:18:59 AM
So as I understand it, it's an instant that could instead be played as a land. Do you have to pay the {R}{U} to play the land? If you cast it as an instant an you get it as a land and/or tap it on the stack? This seems confusing. Combining permanents and non-permanents is strange. Seems like a Future Sight thing to me.
^^^^^^^^
He said it! Return to future sight confirmed!
Well it'd have to a sorcery bc if it's instant you can play lands on your opponents turn.
But it'd be way to complicated
Thinking about how freaking absurd this would be in modern control builds. Ew.
T1- scalding tarn for steam vents
T2- seachrome coast
T3- pass to opponent, kill their tarmagoofy, draw a card, and not miss a land drop.
Wut
Land Spells don't work within the rules guys. Spells don't ever hit the battlefield and you don't cast lands, so they would have to completely rewrite the rules. As for {Dryad Arbor}, that card actually had to have a few paragraphs added to the rules, imagine how many rules would be added for spell lands.
Enchantment Lands are doable. They don't do much, but they can happen. We've had enchantment artifacts, enchantment creatures, artifact lands, a land creature, and artifact creatures. All we need now is Planeswalker Hybrids! :-)
It could be stated that they are either casted as a spell or played as a land, but not both.
Quote from: FustyDavorite on July 06, 2014, 01:44:54 PM
It could be stated that they are either casted as a spell or played as a land, but not both.
Which would be better worded as a land that you sacrifice.
Lofty Perch
Land R
Lofty Perch enters the battlefield tapped.
When Lofty Perch enters the battlefield, you may pay {W}{U}. If you do, exile target creature and gain life equal to that creature's toughness and sacrifice Lofty Perch.
{T}: Add {W} or {U} to your mana pool.
Brook of Memories
Land R
Brook of Memories enters the battlefield tapped.
When Brook of Memories enters the battlefield, you may pay {U}{B}. If you do, target player puts the top ten cards of their library into their graveyard and you sacrifice Brooke of Memories.
{T}: Add {U} or {B} to your mana pool.
Quote from: The1337Magician on July 06, 2014, 04:02:55 PM
Quote from: FustyDavorite on July 06, 2014, 01:44:54 PM
It could be stated that they are either casted as a spell or played as a land, but not both.
Which would be better worded as a land that you sacrifice.
Lofty Perch
Land R
Lofty Perch enters the battlefield tapped.
When Lofty Perch enters the battlefield, you may pay {W}{U}. If you do, exile target creature and gain life equal to that creature's toughness and sacrifice Lofty Perch.
{T}: Add {W} or {U} to your mana pool.
Brook of Memories
Land R
Brook of Memories enters the battlefield tapped.
When Brook of Memories enters the battlefield, you may pay {U}{B}. If you do, target player puts the top ten cards of their library into their graveyard and you sacrifice Brooke of Memories.
{T}: Add {U} or {B} to your mana pool.
That's actually the best way to word it. Though it'd probably be worded
"As Lofty Perch enters the battlefield you may pay {U}{W} and sacrifice it, if you do...."
Throwing the sacrifice on the end and not making it part of the cost is kinda confusing. It's also super OP to have exile and life gain for {U}{W}. Maybe "that creatures controller gains life equal to it's toughness." Or return to hand.
Bloody Arena
Land R
Bloody Arena enters the battlefield tapped.
When Bloody Arena enters the battlefield, you may pay {B}{R}. If you do, destroy target creature or planeswalker and sacrifice Bloody Arena.
{T}: Add {B} or {R} to your mana pool.
Jungle of Rage
Land R
Jungle of Rage enters the battlefield tapped.
When Jungle of Rage enters the battlefield, you may pay {R}{G}. If you do, destroy target artifact or enchantment and Jungle of Rage deals 2 damage to that permanent's controller and sacrifice Jungle of Rage.
{T}: Add {R} or {G} to your mana pool.
Secret Garden
Land R
Secret Garden enters the battlefield tapped.
When Secret Garden enters the battlefield, you may pay {G}{W}. If you do, search your library for a creature card and put it into your hand and sacrifice Secret Garden.
{T}: Add {G} or {W} to your mana pool.
In hindsight, I should have worded it "ETB pay CC and sac it. If you do..." But oh well.
The gameplay balance is still kinda broken. I mean building {terminate} into a land at the drawback of sorcery speed? Wait...I'm complaining? The {W}{G} one is certainly broken though.
Quote from: LinkCelestrial on July 06, 2014, 04:32:55 PM
The gameplay balance is still kinda broken. I mean building {terminate} into a land at the drawback of sorcery speed? Wait...I'm complaining? The {W}{G} one is certainly broken though.
It also counts as your land for the turn, though.
Quote from: Gleemax on July 06, 2014, 04:34:38 PM
Quote from: LinkCelestrial on July 06, 2014, 04:32:55 PM
The gameplay balance is still kinda broken. I mean building {terminate} into a land at the drawback of sorcery speed? Wait...I'm complaining? The {W}{G} one is certainly broken though.
It also counts as your land for the turn, though.
Touché. I guess it'd need play testing. And I meant {Dreadbore}. I've never been a fan of auto killing planeswalkers. -glares at the new Garuuk- at least, auto killing my planeswalkers.... I do like the general idea though. Early game you get a land. Late game you get a sick effect instead.
Quote from: LinkCelestrial on July 06, 2014, 04:32:55 PM
The gameplay balance is still kinda broken. I mean building {terminate} into a land at the drawback of sorcery speed? Wait...I'm complaining? The {W}{G} one is certainly broken though.
{Dreadbore} for BR and {Eladamri's Call} on the WG, actually. I like that way of designing them. It costs tempo, but can give you a great effect at the right time.
The only other way I can think about designing them is with Activated abilities where you Discard them as card of the cost, like Cycling. The problem with that is that it opens them up to not being counterable. It can be offset by bumping up the cost of the ability, at least.
Like this:
Eladamri's Call Land
Land
~ enters the battlefield tapped.
{T}: Add {W} or {G} to your mana pool.
{G}{W}{2}, Discard ~: Search your library for a creature card, reveal it, put that card into your hand, then shuffle your library. Activate this ability only any time you could cast a sorcery.
Or
Eladamri's Cycle Land
Land
~ enters the battlefield tapped.
{T}: Add {W} or {G} to your mana pool.
Cycling {G}{W}{2}
When you cycle ~, Search your library for a creature card and reveal it. Shuffle your library, then put that card on top of it.
With that design, at least for a variant of Eladamri's Call, it has the same exact function. But instead of putting it into your hand, you put it on top and draw it from the Cycling.
Seems more awkward with other abilities, and they'd have to be costed up to compensate for the card draw.
Hidden Tower
Land
Hidden Tower enters the battlefield tapped.
When Hidden Tower enters the battlefield, you may pay {W}{B} and sacrifice it. If you do, creatures you control get +1/+1 and creatures your opponents control get -1/-1 until end of turn.
{T}: Add {W} or {B} to your mana pool.
Warring Citadel
Land
Warring Citadel enters the battlefield tapped.
When Warring Citadel enters the battlefield, you may pay {R}{W} and sacrifice it. If you do, Warring citadel deals 3 damage to target creature or player and you gain 3 life.
{T}: Add {R} or {W} to your mana pool.
Thunderspine Knoll
Land
Thunderspine Knoll enters the battlefield tapped.
When Thunderspine Knoll enters the battlefield, you may pay {U}{R} and sacrifice it. If you do, Thunderspire Knoll deals 2 damage divided as you choose among any number of target creatures or players and you draw a card.
{T}: Add {U} or {R} to your mana pool.
Lol {Electrolyze}, {Lightning Helix} and {Zealous Persecution}!!
I like that idea a lot!! But they'd have to be way less powerful!
They're less powerful than the actual cards anyways! You pay the same as helix and the WB one, but don't get a land! The electrolyze is probably just as powerful a electrolyze because you get it for 2 CMC, but you don't get a land that turn.
Quote from: blackychan1 on July 06, 2014, 06:46:30 PM
They're less powerful than the actual cards anyways! You pay the same as helix and the WB one, but don't get a land! The electrolyze is probably just as powerful a electrolyze because you get it for 2 CMC, but you don't get a land that turn.
I'd be totally fine, most of the time, trading a land drop for a specific spell to be uncounterable at sorcery speed. It's a really strong mechanic.
I like these. I prefer the "when it enters the battlefield you may pay...and sacrifice it, if you do..." Version for sure. I'm just thinking it's kinda sketchy to put high powered cheap spells into them. Play testing would help that but the other sketchy bit is that there's no reason not to grab all the ones that fit your colour(s). Between fetches, shocks, temples and pains do we really need more rare must have lands? I'm also thinking that if they made it "Land - subtype subtype" it'd be super effective. You can fetch land for the land you need. Or a shock land. Or a {Dreadbore}.
Also the Izzet one sucks. Two damage split vs planeswalker/creature kill and three damage life gain? Or you know, whatever creature you want? No contest.
Quote from: LinkCelestrial on July 06, 2014, 07:02:52 PM
I like these. I prefer the "when it enters the battlefield you may pay...and sacrifice it, if you do..." Version for sure. I'm just thinking it's kinda sketchy to put high powered cheap spells into them. Play testing would help that but the other sketchy bit is that there's no reason not to grab all the ones that fit your colour(s). Between fetches, shocks, temples and pains do we really need more rare must have lands? I'm also thinking that if they made it "Land - subtype subtype" it'd be super effective. You can fetch land for the land you need. Or a shock land. Or a {Dreadbore}.
Also the Izzet one sucks. Two damage split vs planeswalker/creature kill and three damage life gain? Or you know, whatever creature you want? No contest.
There is no way we're ever putting land types on these. It'd be stupidly powerful.
As for the Izzet one; You've clearly never played with {Electrolyze}. It's one of the best pure Tempo cards ever printed (along with Remand). You zap two dorks, a dork and the player or an x/2 AND you draw a card. For 3 mana.
Quote from: Remillo on July 06, 2014, 07:13:33 PM
Quote from: LinkCelestrial on July 06, 2014, 07:02:52 PM
I like these. I prefer the "when it enters the battlefield you may pay...and sacrifice it, if you do..." Version for sure. I'm just thinking it's kinda sketchy to put high powered cheap spells into them. Play testing would help that but the other sketchy bit is that there's no reason not to grab all the ones that fit your colour(s). Between fetches, shocks, temples and pains do we really need more rare must have lands? I'm also thinking that if they made it "Land - subtype subtype" it'd be super effective. You can fetch land for the land you need. Or a shock land. Or a {Dreadbore}.
Also the Izzet one sucks. Two damage split vs planeswalker/creature kill and three damage life gain? Or you know, whatever creature you want? No contest.
There is no way we're ever putting land types on these. It'd be stupidly powerful.
As for the Izzet one; You've clearly never played with {Electrolyze}. It's one of the best pure Tempo cards ever printed (along with Remand). You zap two dorks, a dork and the player or an x/2 AND you draw a card. For 3 mana.
It'd be stupidly powerful but it'd be so sick to be on the right side of. Then again I wouldn't like to play against it. I missed the card draw part, which actually completely redeems it.
Last two duals:
Mysterious Shores
Land
Mysterious Shores enters the battlefield tapped.
When Mysterious shores enters the battlefield, you may pay {G}{U} and sacrifice it. If you do, target creature becomes a copy of another non legendary creature on the battlefield until end of turn.
{T}: Add {G} or {U} to your mana pool.
Pulsating Bog
Land
Pulsating Bog enters the battlefield tapped.
When Pulsating Bog enters the battlefield, you may pay {B}{G} and sacrifice it. If you do, destroy target non-Land permanent and all permanents with the same name as that permanent.
{T}: Add {B} or {G} to your mana pool.
Quote from: The1337Magician on July 06, 2014, 08:49:57 PM
Pulsating Bog
Land
Pulsating Bog enters the battlefield tapped.
When Pulsating Bog enters the battlefield, you may pay {B}{G} and sacrifice it. If you do, destroy target non-Land permanent and all permanents with the same name as that permanent.
{T}: Add {B} or {G} to your mana pool.
Overpowered much??
Let's see...
WU Slightly edited {Exile}
UB {Glimpse the Unthinkable}
BR {Dreadbore}
RG {Destructive Revelry}
GW {Eladamri's Call}
WB {Zealous Persecution}
RW {Lightning Helix}
UR {Electrolyze}
GU {Cytoshape}
BG {Maelstrom Pulse}
(You'd be surprised at the lack of average WU Instant/Sorceries)
How lovely.
The U/G and R/G seem to be worse than the others
Quote from: The1337Magician on July 06, 2014, 09:07:46 PM
Let's see...
WU Slightly edited {Exile}
UB {Glimpse the Unthinkable}
BR {Dreadbore}
RG {Destructive Revelry}
GW {Eladamri's Call}
WB {Zealous Persecution}
RW {Lightning Helix}
UR {Electrolyze}
GU {Cytoshape}
BG {Maelstrom Pulse}
(You'd be surprised at the lack of average WU Instant/Sorceries)
How lovely.
Most of those a rares. A couple are uncommon. The {R}{G} one is the only one that doesn't seem too good. And it's still pretty epic. I'm thinking something like,
WU {Disperse} with the permanents controller gaining life equal to the CMC. Or just you gain life.
UB search your library for a card with CMC two and put it in your hand. (I can't remember the shorthand for that)
BR some sort of +X/-X until end of turn. Rakdos feel removal or buff. I'm thinking +2/-2.
RG {Destructive Revelry} I think that's good as is.
GW some sort of token around 3/3. Or life gain equal to creatures you control. Or +1/+1 counter on three creatures.
WB {Zealous Persecution} I like it but it might be a bit much.
RW +2/+0, first strike and/or lifelink.
UR two damage draw discard. Maybe less damage and draw no discard?
GU {Cytoshape} I think this one is epic.
BG {Treasured Find}
Idk just brain storming. Your ideas are epic, they just might be /too/ epic. :P
This is why {Brainstorming} outside of sets is so hard. You have no context to fit it into and some things which may be completely playable seem broken.
Quote from: The1337Magician on July 07, 2014, 09:44:21 AM
This is why {Brainstorming} outside of sets is so hard. You have no context to fit it into and some things which may be completely playable seem broken.
It's still fun though. :P