Hey, i read this article from Channel Fireball about state based actions.
"Each Pack Rat gets +1/+1 for each other Rat in play. If you have 3 Rats and attack into your opponent's board of a 3/3 a 2/2 and a 1/1, how many Rats can die? Answer: all of them (unless you can make another). If your opponent blocks one creature onto each Rat, when combat damage happens then SBAs will kill off the 3/3 Rat with 3 damage marked on it. At which point you only have 2 Rats, which are each 2/2s, one of which has 2 damage marked on it which SBAs sends to the graveyard. Your final Rat is now a 1/1 with 1 damage and so also dies."
Its a very interesting article and I understand what they mean but i just can't find the reason why it (State based actions) should start with the biggest creatures (3/3). The situation would change completely when they start 'destroying' the 1/1 creature instead. I can't find the ruling that's saying that it always starts with the biggest damage or creature. Can sombody explain please.
Thanks.
Well, the thing is, all combat damage is dealt at the same time, then all State-Based actions are checked.
Damage is dealt.
The game sees one of the rats has taken 3 damage, which is lethal, so it dies.
Now, since the Rats are 2/2, the game sees that a 2/2 rat has taken 2, which is lethal, so it dies.
Finally, since the Rat is now 1/1, the game sees it's taken 1 damage, which is lethal.
There's no 'order' to SBA's, they just happen. What's happening here is no different than casting a {Lightning Strike} on a 6/6, then hitting it with {Bile Blight} to kill it.
Well, to clarify for your confusion -
Game checks and sees three 3/3 Rats with 3, 2 and 1 damage on them, so it kills the one with three damage.
Then the game sees two 2/2 rats with 2 and 1, so it kills the one with two.
Then the game sees a 1/1 rat with 1, so it kills it.
The game checks it all simultaneously, but the only reason the others die is because their P/T are changing while the others die.
Well, that's the part i do understand. But since the pack rats are the attacking ones, why doesn't the game state see a 3/3 a 2/2 and a 1/1 witch all have 3 damage marked on them?
And then starts with the smallest one?
Quote from: Tthmax on June 22, 2014, 03:17:56 PM
And then starts with the smallest one?
its looking at all of them at the same time. the game does see the rat with 1 damage marked on it, but the game doesnt care about a 3/3 rat with 1 damage marked on it. Seeing all the rats with damage on them, only the 3/3 dies. then rats shrink and the dmg kills them.
Not sure I understand what you mean, here. When damage is dealt, all the rats are 3/3s.
State based Actions will see three 3/3 rats with 3, 2 and 1 damage, as well as a 1/1, a 2/2 and a 3/3 all with 3 damage. The rat with Three damage and all three blockers will die in the first state 'check', then the rat scenario continues from there.
If that's at all what you're trying to get at.
The three opponents creatures die when your first {pack rat} does, but the damage on the other rats stays until the end of turn, or, in this case, they die.
Yes Remillo, that's what i was misssing. They are all marked and then from there on they all die. Including the blockers and then the rats, one by one. Its clear, thanks!
And sorry.....
Just so I make sure I get this cause I was wondering too,
A attacks with 3/3 3/3 3/3
B blocks with 3/3 2/2 1/1
Then A looks like 3/1 3/2
And B has nothing.
However the pack rats go down by 1/1 causing a chain reaction that kills them all. So they don't die simultaneously they die from damage sticking and buff loss. Right?
Quote from: LinkCelestrial on June 22, 2014, 04:41:05 PM
Just so I make sure I get this cause I was wondering too,
A attacks with 3/3 3/3 3/3
B blocks with 3/3 2/2 1/1
Then A looks like 3/1 3/2
And B has nothing.
However the pack rats go down by 1/1 causing a chain reaction that kills them all. So they don't die simultaneously they die from damage sticking and buff loss. Right?
You have the jist of it, but remember that damage doesn't reduce Toughness. It's just marked on the creature until the clean-up step, and if the marked damage is equal to or greater than its Toughness, the game puts it in to the graveyard as a 'State-Based Action'.
Quote from: Remillo on June 22, 2014, 04:44:17 PM
Quote from: LinkCelestrial on June 22, 2014, 04:41:05 PM
Just so I make sure I get this cause I was wondering too,
A attacks with 3/3 3/3 3/3
B blocks with 3/3 2/2 1/1
Then A looks like 3/1 3/2
And B has nothing.
However the pack rats go down by 1/1 causing a chain reaction that kills them all. So they don't die simultaneously they die from damage sticking and buff loss. Right?
You have the jist of it, but remember that damage doesn't reduce Toughness. It's just marked on the creature until the clean-up step, and if the marked damage is equal to or greater than its Toughness, the game puts it in to the graveyard as a 'State-Based Action'.
Okay makes sense. Thanks. :)