{Darksteel Reactor} + {Vorel of the Hull Clade} = Insta win?
E.G. As soon as the reactor has 20+ counters, win? Or is it at beginning of upkeep?
Quote from: TreeTopSky on June 03, 2014, 11:29:13 AM
{Darksteel Reactor} + {Vorel of the Hull Clade} = Insta win?
E.G. As soon as the reactor has 20+ counters, win? Or is it at beginning of upkeep?
As soon as it has the counters you win
112.3c (http://imtgapp.com/forum/index.php?action=imtg;area=rule;number=112.3c): Triggered abilities have a trigger condition and an effect. They are written as "[Trigger condition], [effect]," and include (and usually begin with) the word "when," "whenever," or "at." Whenever the trigger event occurs, the ability is put on the stack the next time a player would receive priority and stays there until it's countered, it resolves, or it otherwise leaves the stack. See rule 603, "Handling Triggered Abilities."
As soon as it has the 20 counters, the ability goes on the stack.
Additional question: how often will it put the ability on the stack? If I {stifle} the ability, will it only check once for the 20th counter, effectively making it useless for the rest of the game unless the number of counters goes below 20?
Quote from: Noblellama on June 03, 2014, 11:57:03 AM
It says 20 or more, and you can stifle it, but then it checks again as a state based effect and puts another "you win" on the stack
I was pretty sure this was correct, but was too scared to post lol
Thats what i figured, just wanted to be sure. Thanks fellas.
Add {doubling season} for even faster win!
Question, if I had a {stifle} in hand, {omniscience} and {tamiyo, the moon sage} emblem on the BF, could I essentially draw the game by stifling every time the trigger went on the stack?
That is dirty, and filthy, and disgusting, and I just broke so many English grammar rules it isn't even funny
But what if someone {Counterspell}s {Stifie}, can you just cast it again?
Quote from: Avodroc13 on June 04, 2014, 04:09:56 PM
But what if someone {Counterspell}s {Stifie}, can you just cast it again?
Correct me if I'm wrong but while a spell is on the stack the card hasn't gone to the GY yet, meaning that you couldn't then cast it again, it must resolve first.
Edit.
111.1. (http://imtgapp.com/forum/index.php?action=imtg;area=rule;number=111.1.): A spell is a card on the stack. As the first step of being cast (see rule 601, "Casting Spells"), the card becomes a spell and is moved to the top of the stack from the zone it was in, which is usually its owner's hand. (See rule 405, "Stack.") A spell remains on the stack as a spell until it resolves (see rule 608, "Resolving Spells and Abilities"), is countered (see rule 701.5), or otherwise leaves the stack. For more information, see section 6, "Spells, Abilities, and Effects."
But then again, counterspell isn't an activated or triggered ability so that wouldn't work anyway.
That scenario would work, except there may be some rule that prevents a player from forcing a draw like that. I'll try to look up the ruling later. Now on to the stack.
I win goes on the stack. You cast stifle, stifle resolves. Stifle goes to the GY and the I win gets exiled. Because timiyu's embalm says whenever, I want to say this is a triggered ability, so return stifle to your hand and I win go on the stack in ap/nap order. If it is your turn, they will win before stifle returns to your hand. Multiple stifles in hand will only delay the inevitable. Let's say it is their turn. Stifle comes back to your hand, I win is on the stack, and your opponent receives priority. When he passes priority, you can again stifle it and repeat ad nausium.
What happens when stifle is counterspelled? Counterspell goes on the stack and resolves, sending stifle to the GY. Embalm triggers and is put on the stack. Everyone passes and embalm resolves moving stifle back to your hand with I win still on the stack. Opponent passes priority and you can then recast stifle. Again, repeat ad nausium.
Quote from: Pleeb on June 04, 2014, 09:48:29 PM
That scenario would work, except there may be some rule that prevents a player from forcing a draw like that. I'll try to look up the ruling later. Now on to the stack.
I win goes on the stack. You cast stifle, stifle resolves. Stifle goes to the GY and the I win gets exiled. Because timiyu's embalm says whenever, I want to say this is a triggered ability, so return stifle to your hand and I win go on the stack in ap/nap order. If it is your turn, they will win before stifle returns to your hand. Multiple stifles in hand will only delay the inevitable. Let's say it is their turn. Stifle comes back to your hand, I win is on the stack, and your opponent receives priority. When he passes priority, you can again stifle it and repeat ad nausium.
What happens when stifle is counterspelled? Counterspell goes on the stack and resolves, sending stifle to the GY. Embalm triggers and is put on the stack. Everyone passes and embalm resolves moving stifle back to your hand with I win still on the stack. Opponent passes priority and you can then recast stifle. Again, repeat ad nausium.
TL;DR - they must "wincon" on their turn for me to draw. Thanks.
And now it's time to crush hopes and dreams.
716.3. (http://imtgapp.com/forum/index.php?action=imtg;area=rule;number=716.3.): Sometimes a loop can be fragmented, meaning that each player involved in the loop performs an independent action that results in the same game state being reached multiple times. If that happens, the active player (or, if the active player is not involved in the loop, the first player in turn order who is involved) must then make a different game choice so the loop does not continue.
Example: In a two-player game, the active player controls a creature with the ability "{0}: [This creature] gains flying," the nonactive player controls a permanent with the ability "{0}: Target creature loses flying," and nothing in the game cares how many times an ability has been activated. Say the active player activates his creature's ability, it resolves, then the nonactive player activates her permanent's ability targeting that creature, and it resolves. This returns the game to a game state it was at before. The active player must make a different game choice (in other words, anything other than activating that creature's ability again). The creature doesn't have flying. Note that the nonactive player could have prevented the fragmented loop simply by not activating her permanent's ability, in which case the creature would have had flying. The nonactive player always has the final choice and is therefore able to determine whether the creature has flying.
Because you are the only player making a choice in the loop, you are prevented from casting stifle on his I win trigger a second time.
From what I read, it only applies if the active can make another legal decision. As {darksteel forge} is a mandatory trigger, he cannot cause it to not happen. However, before passing priority, the active player can make another action. Once priority is passed, the other player can {stifle} again.
That rule states that the active player has to perform a different action. It doesn't state that the non-active also has to perform a different action.
Unless I am misreading it...
This is the part of the rule I'm interpreting as you, being the only player making an active choice, have to break the loop.
" If that happens, the active player (or, if the active player is not involved in the loop, the first player in turn order who is involved) must then make a different game choice so the loop does not continue."
Just smash my hopes and dreams why don't you...
When I win is on the stack, can I Stifie the i win then while Stifie is on the stack cast an exile target artifact, let Stifie resolve, and be safe?
Quote from: Avodroc13 on June 05, 2014, 02:58:08 PM
When I win is on the stack, can I Stifie the i win then while Stifie is on the stack cast an exile target artifact, let Stifie resolve, and be safe?
My understanding is that when the I win resolves, it checks to see if there are still 20 counters on the artifact. This means that you can exile the artifact or remove enough counters from the artifact to get it below 20 while it is on the stack and it will be countered, no stifle needed. I'm not 100% on this one though.