{torpor orb}, {ephara, god of the polis}.
was playing edh and i had the orb. opponent thought since its an upkeep trigger it wouldnt be affected by {torpor orb}. i think its a delayed trigger being caused by a creature entering the battlefield. thoughts?
The trigger is put on the stack at the beginning of the upkeep, but it is triggered by a creature entering the battlefield, so should be stopped by the torpor orb.
If torpor orb is on the bf when the creature is summoned but not during the upkeep, it will not prevent ephara's ability from triggering.
yea torpor orb was out the whole time, thanks.
I'll say you still get the trigger. I'm also pretty sure this (lack of) interaction was discussed on here before.
Although I initially thought otherwise, too, Torpor Orb doesn't actually stop Ephara from triggering. Ephara's trigger isn't a direct result of the creature entering the battlefield; it simply checks to see if something is true. If a creature entered the battlefield last turn, cool, it happens. If Torpor Orb affected it, it would be much wordier and have to just mention the first creature to enter under your control each turn.
Quote from: Remillo on May 31, 2014, 07:32:41 AM
I'll say you still get the trigger. I'm also pretty sure this (lack of) interaction was discussed on here before.
Although I initially thought otherwise, too, Torpor Orb doesn't actually stop Ephara from triggering. Ephara's trigger isn't a direct result of the creature entering the battlefield; it simply checks to see if something is true. If a creature entered the battlefield last turn, cool, it happens. If Torpor Orb affected it, it would be much wordier and have to just mention the first creature to enter under your control each turn.
I believe this to be the case as well. There is no ruling I can find to support it but this makes the most sense. The creature entering the battle field is not creating a trigger so torpor orb should not stop Ephara from checking just like Remillo said.
If Ephara stated "when creatures enter the battlefield you draw a card at the beginning of your next upkeep" then yes torpor orb would stop it because Ephara is requiring the creatures to create triggers, whereas, her current mechanic is just checking state based actions.
One last thing with triggers.....look for the word "when" that almost always indicates a trigger is being created. I can't think of a card that creates a trigger and does not have the word "when"
Oh, Ephara has a Triggered Ability, no doubt about it, it's just not triggered directly by a creature entering the battlefield. Triggered abilities start with 'When', 'Whenever' and 'At'. I did check this one on the Judge IRC, if that supports the case at all. Perhaps there should be a link to it in the Rule section guidelines post? It's a really good resource.
Quote from: cltrn81 on May 31, 2014, 07:39:16 AM
If Ephara stated "when creatures enter the battlefield you draw a card at the beginning of your next upkeep" then yes torpor orb would stop it because Ephara is requiring the creatures to create triggers, whereas, her current mechanic is just checking state based actions.
To be more specific, it would be more like 'Whenever a creature enters the battlefield under your control for the first time each turn, draw a card at the beginning of the next turn's upkeep.' That's just really wordy.
Also, there are no State Based Actions or anything being checked here, just the game state itself. Ephara just asks 'Did a creature enter the battlefield under your control last turn?' If 'Yes' is returned, it triggers and gets you a card.
Just spent way too long looking at these cards trying to get these to mesh in my head.
I was interpreting ephara's ability incorrectly. I was considering it a delayed trigger and the trigger condition was a creature entering the bf in the previous turn. Instead the triggering condition is "the beginning of each upkeep". This ability will always go on the stack at each upkeep and will then check the game state of the previous turn.
Quote from: Pleeb on May 31, 2014, 11:33:57 AM
Just spent way too long looking at these cards trying to get these to mesh in my head.
I was interpreting ephara's ability incorrectly. I was considering it a delayed trigger and the trigger condition was a creature entering the bf in the previous turn. Instead the triggering condition is "the beginning of each upkeep". This ability will always go on the stack at each upkeep and will then check the game state of the previous turn.
Almost there, but not quite. Ephara's ability has what's known as an 'Intervening If Clause', because the ability is worded "[Triggering Event], IF [Trigger Condition], [Effect]". The way the If clauses work is that the ability doesn't trigger at all if that condition isn't true when the triggering event occurs, and the ability is countered by the game if the condition isn't still true when the ability tries to resolve. Ephara's ability wont trigger at all (meaning, wont be put on to the stack) if a creature didn't enter under your control during the previous turn.
The second part of the 'If clause rule' doesn't matter with Ephara, since nothing can change the fact that the condition is true. It's more prominent with something like {Krond the Dawn-Clad}. Krond's exile ability will only trigger if he's enchanted (trigger condition) when he attacks (triggering event), and the ability will be countered if he's no longer enchanted when the ability tries to resolve.