Simple question, which would you rather use,
{Ponder}
{Preordain}
Go!
I'd much rather preordain, I'd much rather see 1 less and have the ability to "ship" it, than see something amazing and 2 useless cards and still have to wait the turns to draw them.
Why not both!! Lol
But I think I'm with you but I do love Ponder!
I just wish they were modern legal:(
Quote from: Ibtrickey on May 24, 2014, 12:35:08 AM
I just wish they were modern legal:(
Noooooo! Lol modern would be broken!! Imagine those two with Miracle cards???? .... It'd be so overpowered!!!
Quote from: Mattao19 on May 24, 2014, 12:40:40 AM
Quote from: Ibtrickey on May 24, 2014, 12:35:08 AM
I just wish they were modern legal:(
Noooooo! Lol modern would be broken!! Imagine those two with Miracle cards???? .... It'd be so overpowered!!!
The only miracle card that the Legacy Miracles deck uses is {Entreat the Angels}.... so I don't know how Modern Miracles would run...
Quote from: rarehuntertay on May 24, 2014, 07:57:48 AM
Quote from: Mattao19 on May 24, 2014, 12:40:40 AM
Quote from: Ibtrickey on May 24, 2014, 12:35:08 AM
I just wish they were modern legal:(
Noooooo! Lol modern would be broken!! Imagine those two with Miracle cards???? .... It'd be so overpowered!!!
The only miracle card that the Legacy Miracles deck uses is {Entreat the Angels}.... so I don't know how Modern Miracles would run...
They also run the one that puts all creatures to the bottom
{Terminus} is the one you're thinking of.
completely forgot about that one lol
I love Scry so I have to say {preordain}. I used to like {ponder} so much cuz it is very close to {brainstorm} but to be able to put useless land or something else in your top deck that won't help you on the bottom is an awesome tool. Scry is also better at digging for combos.....ponder may not see your combo card you are digging for with those top three and you still have to draw into those cards.
With that said {ponder} can be just as good with digging if using fetch lands to reset when you don't see what you want inthe top 3
{Ponder} because it lets you dig deeper. Of course the real answer is C, {Brainstorm}.
As for {Ponder} and/or {Preordain} enabling Miracles in Modern, you would really have to unban Top, not those cards, to enable the deck. The biggest decks that would benefit from Ponder/Preordain would be Combo and Delver strategies.
True but think about just Blue decks across the board so man of them use {Serum Visions} if Ponder or Preordained ever got unbanned (which they won't) they will instantly see play instead
Quote from: Taysby on May 24, 2014, 11:45:37 AM
everyone seems to be forgetting that {ponder} lets you shuffle if you wish...
I was going to point that out. Ponder is better than preordain.
Quote from: Taysby on May 24, 2014, 11:45:37 AM
everyone seems to be forgetting that {ponder} lets you shuffle if you wish...
Oh yea that's true
True :P tbh I've never played wit either lol
But I have played with c) {Brainstorm} and ... It's unreal!!
Side note: check out {Portent}... Ponder that let's you do your opponents library at the cost of a delayed draw. Pretty cool though.
Quote from: Falcon182 on May 24, 2014, 10:47:42 PM
Side note: check out {Portent}... Ponder that let's you do your opponents library at the cost of a delayed draw. Pretty cool though.
Yea I learned about this card a while ago. I don't understand why it's not used more in legacy.
Of Ponder and Preordain, I'll take Ponder, hands down. You get to dig a little deeper, shuffle if you have to, and have a fresh three cards to look at with your Divining Top.
Though, really, any self-respecting legacy deck playing Blue is going to run SuperPonder, which is Brainstorm + Fetch Lands.
Quote from: cltrn81 on May 25, 2014, 09:51:56 AM
Quote from: Falcon182 on May 24, 2014, 10:47:42 PM
Side note: check out {Portent}... Ponder that let's you do your opponents library at the cost of a delayed draw. Pretty cool though.
Yea I learned about this card a while ago. I don't understand why it's not used more in legacy.
It's because you don't draw that extra card until the next upkeep. Sometimes you really need that card off ponder immediately. It'd be better at instant for sure.
Quote from: Falcon182 on May 25, 2014, 11:58:41 AM
Quote from: cltrn81 on May 25, 2014, 09:51:56 AM
Quote from: Falcon182 on May 24, 2014, 10:47:42 PM
Side note: check out {Portent}... Ponder that let's you do your opponents library at the cost of a delayed draw. Pretty cool though.
Yea I learned about this card a while ago. I don't understand why it's not used more in legacy.
It's because you don't draw that extra card until the next upkeep. Sometimes you really need that card off ponder immediately. It'd be better at instant for sure.
I would use it for evil purposes like messing up my opponents deck but fetch lands almost make that strategy obsolete
Quote from: cltrn81 on May 25, 2014, 12:07:13 PM
Quote from: Falcon182 on May 25, 2014, 11:58:41 AM
Quote from: cltrn81 on May 25, 2014, 09:51:56 AM
Quote from: Falcon182 on May 24, 2014, 10:47:42 PM
Side note: check out {Portent}... Ponder that let's you do your opponents library at the cost of a delayed draw. Pretty cool though.
Yea I learned about this card a while ago. I don't understand why it's not used more in legacy.
It's because you don't draw that extra card until the next upkeep. Sometimes you really need that card off ponder immediately. It'd be better at instant for sure.
I would use it for evil purposes like messing up my opponents deck but fetch lands almost make that strategy obsolete
Yeah, it's usually gonna be better to do your own cards but you may occasionally catch someone and make them shuffle away stuff they want.
Quote from: Falcon182 on May 25, 2014, 01:46:15 PM
Quote from: cltrn81 on May 25, 2014, 12:07:13 PM
Quote from: Falcon182 on May 25, 2014, 11:58:41 AM
Quote from: cltrn81 on May 25, 2014, 09:51:56 AM
Quote from: Falcon182 on May 24, 2014, 10:47:42 PM
Side note: check out {Portent}... Ponder that let's you do your opponents library at the cost of a delayed draw. Pretty cool though.
Yea I learned about this card a while ago. I don't understand why it's not used more in legacy.
It's because you don't draw that extra card until the next upkeep. Sometimes you really need that card off ponder immediately. It'd be better at instant for sure.
I would use it for evil purposes like messing up my opponents deck but fetch lands almost make that strategy obsolete
Yeah, it's usually gonna be better to do your own cards but you may occasionally catch someone and make them shuffle away stuff they want.
To bad it's not modern legal, it would go great with {Archive Trap}.
Quote from: Rasser on May 25, 2014, 03:05:00 PM
To bad it's not modern legal, it would go great with {Archive Trap}.
And for that, we have the abundance of fetch lands and Ghost Quarter, which can only be countered by... Two? Maybe Three cards in the Modern card pool?
Quote from: Rasser on May 25, 2014, 03:05:00 PM
Quote from: Falcon182 on May 25, 2014, 01:46:15 PM
Quote from: cltrn81 on May 25, 2014, 12:07:13 PM
Quote from: Falcon182 on May 25, 2014, 11:58:41 AM
Quote from: cltrn81 on May 25, 2014, 09:51:56 AM
Quote from: Falcon182 on May 24, 2014, 10:47:42 PM
Side note: check out {Portent}... Ponder that let's you do your opponents library at the cost of a delayed draw. Pretty cool though.
Yea I learned about this card a while ago. I don't understand why it's not used more in legacy.
It's because you don't draw that extra card until the next upkeep. Sometimes you really need that card off ponder immediately. It'd be better at instant for sure.
I would use it for evil purposes like messing up my opponents deck but fetch lands almost make that strategy obsolete
Yeah, it's usually gonna be better to do your own cards but you may occasionally catch someone and make them shuffle away stuff they want.
To bad it's not modern legal, it would go great with {Archive Trap}.
Is modern mill really a thing tho?
Quote from: Remillo on May 25, 2014, 03:10:18 PM
Quote from: Rasser on May 25, 2014, 03:05:00 PM
To bad it's not modern legal, it would go great with {Archive Trap}.
And for that, we have the abundance of fetch lands and Ghost Quarter, which can only be countered by... Two? Maybe Three cards in the Modern card pool?
.poo.! My brain isn't working today! I was thinking that {Archive Trap} said when an opponent shuffles his library not searches. 😖 doesn't help like I thought. Face/palm!