iMtG Server: Gathering

Color Blind Beast 65 cards, 6 sideboard 4 {Urza's Power Plant} 2 {Eye of Ugin} 4 {Urza's Mine} 4 {Eldrazi Temple} 4 {Thespian's Stage} 4 {Hall of the Bandit Lord} 4 {Urza's Tower} 26 lands 1 {Ulamog, the Infinite Gyre} 3 {Pathrazer of Ulamog} 4 {Ulamog's Crusher} 1 {It That Betrays} 4 {Walking Atlas} 1 {Kozilek, Butcher of Truth} 1 {Emrakul, the Aeons Torn} 3 {Artisan of Kozilek} 2 {Spawnsire of Ulamog} 20 creatures 4 {Expedition Map} 4 {Eternity Vessel} 3 {Ward of Bones} 1 {Skittering Invasion} 3 {Not of This World} 2 {All Is Dust} 2 {Ring of Three Wishes} 19 other spells Sideboard 2 {Cryptic Gateway} 4 {Cloudpost} 6 sideboard cards

Trust taysby when it comes to tron.

Actually any out of date colorless deck ask him. ;)

Quote from: Taysby on May 05, 2014, 10:28:04 PM
Tron is not out of date.  It has excellent matchups.  People just don't play it.  It pounds pod (relics) splinter twin (oblivion stone) it has a better long range than tempo (Emmy) Jund pretty much scoops to it, I have yet to find a really bad matchup for it.

How does relic pound pod?

Yet only 4 lands that help with Sylvan Scrying and Ancient Stirrings. This is why Tron plays Chromatics. And there doesn't seem to be any reason for red either. The deck is trying so hard to get Tron without any real support for the colors.

The decks seems weaker and rather inconsistent. I really don't listen to Taysby since it never works out and his decks are always missing the most important edges that gives decks a reason to play.

And yes, Tron is out of date. If people aren't using it, there is a reason. There are better decks, and the decks best matchup has been rather cold. Tron has become Tier 2 or Tier 1.5 at most. It has good cards against matchups, but doesn't have ever answer while other decks are just not caring or have answers and resiliency. Relic doesn't destroy pod and neither does O stone. I am sure Edo can explain the match up more since he has more experience with Pod than I would.

Quote from: Taysby on May 06, 2014, 09:41:13 AM
Explain to me please.  I would like to know how that's not going to stop them from goi infinite.

They don't. And the ability to get back into the game is moderately possible after pyroclasm. Since Tron only plays 8 and they have lack of value properly, there is no right reason to worry. Grinding is hard, but the ability to fight is still helpful. Usually Kitchen Finks and Lingerin Souls were helpful in the matchup. That's why people started playing Anger. Kataki is the best card against them.

And this deck seems subpar if you're trying to use Chromatic and Pyroclasm, where GR Tron is better than deck for resiliency and protection, while this is all in and has no way to stop other decks from racing.

Quote from: ConanEdo on May 06, 2014, 02:13:00 PM

Quote from: DeathlyFoiend on May 06, 2014, 10:22:11 AM

Quote from: Taysby on May 06, 2014, 09:41:13 AM
Explain to me please.  I would like to know how that's not going to stop them from goi infinite.

They don't. And the ability to get back into the game is moderately possible after pyroclasm. Since Tron only plays 8 and they have lack of value properly, there is no right reason to worry. Grinding is hard, but the ability to fight is still helpful. Usually Kitchen Finks and Lingerin Souls were helpful in the matchup. That's why people started playing Anger. Kataki is the best card against them.

And this deck seems subpar if you're trying to use Chromatic and Pyroclasm, where GR Tron is better than deck for resiliency and protection, while this is all in and has no way to stop other decks from racing.

Aven Mindcensor was also really good of used properly, the problem was that a recurred Finks and Voice token aren't good against a Wurmcoil, which usually hit turn 5 or 6. That and turn 3 Karn were why Melira had a 35-65 matchup.

However, Pod does have new tech that I'm rapidly falling in love with in {{Athreos, God of Passage}}

Huh. There are ways to fight, but I always thought the match up was at least 40/60. Never really noticed in testing then. 

And yes, Athreos is so good in pod and I am loving it as well. It does stop the combo and it only builds on the grindy ness. I actually think It might improve the match up since it is hardly a creature that early on.

3rd turn Karn is always hard, but you could always hope for a misplay.

Quote from: Taysby on May 06, 2014, 09:19:44 PM

Quote from: DeathlyFoiend on May 06, 2014, 10:22:11 AM

Quote from: Taysby on May 06, 2014, 09:41:13 AM
Explain to me please.  I would like to know how that's not going to stop them from goi infinite.

They don't. And the ability to get back into the game is moderately possible after pyroclasm. Since Tron only plays 8 and they have lack of value properly, there is no right reason to worry. Grinding is hard, but the ability to fight is still helpful. Usually Kitchen Finks and Lingerin Souls were helpful in the matchup. That's why people started playing Anger. Kataki is the best card against them.

And this deck seems subpar if you're trying to use Chromatic and Pyroclasm, where GR Tron is better than deck for resiliency and protection, while this is all in and has no way to stop other decks from racing.

If they end up grinding, it grinds right into tron normal game plan.

I know this deck isn't rg tron.  He wants a deck to throw out a bunch of eldrazi's so I'm trying to make that for him.  I bumped my list so he could see a actual rg tron list.

ANd yet, looking for at a GR List isn't going to help unless you explain what cards exist and why. The way to change a deck is to give the options, and never over look anything. You just give them the best cards you think would work, explain why and go on from there. If you miss something, you're just going to make the person change the list over and over again, and that doesn't help. Explain a deck, give him options to what the variants are, and try to lead him in a path the spark creativity or competitiveness.

How the Pod and Tron match up work is that you are either fast enough or pod is setting up a graveyard. Tron works at Sorcery speed, and can't handle anything on their opponent's turn. Relic is only good early enough and against Jund because Jund was a Gravebased deck that removed the graveyard 2 cards a turn at most. Relic doesn't affect Pod because it is only a one shot hit or you're just feeding into their plan of getting rid of cards that don't affect the game anymore. This is day 1 of Pod Testing, know how to work around and plan ahead in games. Grinding doesn't work because they fall into Tron's game plan, but the idea is to get away from it and work with the ability of using Karn's Permanent removal over hand removal, and this is why I liked having Paths in sideboard, for Wurmcoil. Most Trons only played 2 anyways, so having 3 Paths and 1 Dismember was the way my friend planned his match up.

Sorry, I kind of went to my Pod friend to get how he works the match up against Tron. He doesn't worry about it as much now since Tron usually has a bad game against Aggro/Tempo decks anyways, which are showing up more. Pod has a great grindy match up against those decks, though.

Cloud post is banned

Quote from: Taysby on May 07, 2014, 12:27:06 AM

Quote from: DeathlyFoiend on May 06, 2014, 10:00:33 PM

Quote from: Taysby on May 06, 2014, 09:19:44 PM

Quote from: DeathlyFoiend on May 06, 2014, 10:22:11 AM

Quote from: Taysby on May 06, 2014, 09:41:13 AM
Explain to me please.  I would like to know how that's not going to stop them from goi infinite.

They don't. And the ability to get back into the game is moderately possible after pyroclasm. Since Tron only plays 8 and they have lack of value properly, there is no right reason to worry. Grinding is hard, but the ability to fight is still helpful. Usually Kitchen Finks and Lingerin Souls were helpful in the matchup. That's why people started playing Anger. Kataki is the best card against them.

And this deck seems subpar if you're trying to use Chromatic and Pyroclasm, where GR Tron is better than deck for resiliency and protection, while this is all in and has no way to stop other decks from racing.

If they end up grinding, it grinds right into tron normal game plan.

I know this deck isn't rg tron.  He wants a deck to throw out a bunch of eldrazi's so I'm trying to make that for him.  I bumped my list so he could see a actual rg tron list.

ANd yet, looking for at a GR List isn't going to help unless you explain what cards exist and why. The way to change a deck is to give the options, and never over look anything. You just give them the best cards you think would work, explain why and go on from there. If you miss something, you're just going to make the person change the list over and over again, and that doesn't help. Explain a deck, give him options to what the variants are, and try to lead him in a path the spark creativity or competitiveness.

How the Pod and Tron match up work is that you are either fast enough or pod is setting up a graveyard. Tron works at Sorcery speed, and can't handle anything on their opponent's turn. Relic is only good early enough and against Jund because Jund was a Gravebased deck that removed the graveyard 2 cards a turn at most. Relic doesn't affect Pod because it is only a one shot hit or you're just feeding into their plan of getting rid of cards that don't affect the game anymore. This is day 1 of Pod Testing, know how to work around and plan ahead in games. Grinding doesn't work because they fall into Tron's game plan, but the idea is to get away from it and work with the ability of using Karn's Permanent removal over hand removal, and this is why I liked having Paths in sideboard, for Wurmcoil. Most Trons only played 2 anyways, so having 3 Paths and 1 Dismember was the way my friend planned his match up.

Sorry, I kind of went to my Pod friend to get how he works the match up against Tron. He doesn't worry about it as much now since Tron usually has a bad game against Aggro/Tempo decks anyways, which are showing up more. Pod has a great grindy match up against those decks, though.

1. I can accept that.  It just takes a long time.  :P

2. Tron works at instant speed through relic and I stone.  Relics keep them from going infinite (unless I misunderstood that post) and o stone wipes the field.  I run 4 wurmcoils, so that's their problem.  Next fnm I'll play the guy who has pod a lot and tell you the results.

3. The only thing tron struggles with are decks that run 4 remands and 4 cryptics because nothing sticks.  Aggro, it can wipe the field and gain the life back with wurmcoil.

Ostone still costs to use and it's a turn too establishing to worry about. It you are saying that that is your biggest thing at instant speed, there are ways around it and pod can use that to their advantage. I'm not saying it is easy, but reliable when you use your graveyard as a second hand. I mentioned Relic and stop using that as a method. Pod isn't a combo deck, but a midrange with combo tools. Just focusing on that doesn't help.

And actually, Tron has a slow matchup against aggro due to the reliance on puttin out more than they can chew will aggro decks force the player to over extend and use resources that don't help in the moment. Things like Wurmcoil are only good when it does stuff and it only does it once per turn, becoming easy to race in the end.

Tron is a good deck, but it is easy to play against when you know the route it starts to go down. In the first 2 turns, you usually kno.

Quote from: Taysby on May 07, 2014, 09:19:16 AM
My experience with aggro.  Turn 4 I've stabilized at about 6 life, throw down a wurmcoil, and go back up to 20.  Almost every time that happens.

When you mention your experience with things without as much of any data, it is pointless.

Your experience is you LGS, so.