When you cast a {Gnarled Scarhide} for it's Bestow cost targeting a {Ragemonger}... I know that the bestow card ceases to be a creature and becomes an Aura but when does it cease to be a Minotaur spell? Is that distinction made at the moment you choose to cast for it's bestow cost?
In simple terms, does {Ragemonger} reduce the bestow cost on {Gnarled Scarhide}?
You chose if you're going to Bestow a card before costs are decided. The moment you decided to bestow, it's not a Minotaur spell anymore. So, when costs are calculated, it doesn't get the reduction from Ragemonger, as it's not a Minotaur anymore.
{Ragemonger} states Minotaur spell, not creature spell. Minotaur is the subtype. So it is a aura spell with the Minotaur subtype still and should be affected.
Quote from: Nymuera on May 01, 2014, 02:04:30 PM
{Ragemonger} states Minotaur spell, not creature spell. Minotaur is the subtype. So it is a aura spell with the Minotaur subtype still and should be affected.
With the exception of Tribal cards, non-Creature spells or permanents can't have Creature types. When it becomes an Aura (Non-Creature), it loses the creature typing. This is also why God cards lose their God typing when they aren't creatures (and why {Deicide} has to specify 'if that CARD was A God', instead of just 'If it was a god')
Spells with changeling, though, would be affect by Ragemonger, because Tribal allows it to have a creature type.
It feels like it should though. I agree I was wrong, but the feel of the ability seems like that was the intent. Rules trump feelings though.
Quote from: Nymuera on May 01, 2014, 05:58:38 PM
It feels like it should though. I agree I was wrong, but the feel of the ability seems like that was the intent. Rules trump feelings though.
This
205.1a Some effects set an object's card type. In such cases, the new card type(s) replaces any existing card types. Counters, effects, and damage marked on the object remain with it, even if they are meaningless to the new card type. Similarly, when an effect sets one or more of an object's subtypes, the new subtype(s) replaces any existing subtypes from the appropriate set (creature types, land types, artifact types, enchantment types, planeswalker types, or spell types). If an object's card type is removed, the subtypes correlated with that card type will remain if they are also the subtypes of a card type the object currently has; otherwise, they are also removed for the entire time the object's card type is removed. Removing an object's subtype doesn't affect its card types at all.
For the relevant ruling.
Also found this which shows why tribal spells can have creature types.
205.3m (http://imtgapp.com/forum/index.php?action=imtg;area=rule;number=205.3m): Creatures and tribals share their lists of subtypes; these subtypes are called creature types.
Removed the list of types to make the post length reasonable