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Magic (The Gathering) => Rules => Topic started by: ultimatetofu on April 24, 2014, 01:37:21 PM

Title: isocron scepter and split cards
Post by: ultimatetofu on April 24, 2014, 01:37:21 PM
Is it a legal move for me to put imprint a split card such as turn and burn on isochron scepter and still use both with its fuse ability
Title: Re: isocron scepter and split cards
Post by: FustyDavorite on April 24, 2014, 01:45:09 PM
You only get the characteristics of one side.

702.101a (http://imtgapp.com/forum/index.php?action=imtg;area=rule;number=702.101a): Fuse is a static ability found on some split cards (see rule 708, "Split Cards") that applies while the card with fuse is in a player's hand. If a player casts a split card with fuse from his or her hand, the player may choose to cast both halves of that split card. This choice is made before putting the split card with fuse onto the stack. The resulting spell is a fused split spell.

So this also means that the cmc of a split card includes both sides. There are no split cards with a cmc of 2 or less (correct me if I'm missing one), so you can't imprint to isochron anyhow.
Title: Re: isocron scepter and split cards
Post by: rarehuntertay on April 24, 2014, 01:51:44 PM
I would say that you could. Reasoning is the same as revealing a split card with cascade. You can cast either side of the card, but not both.
http://www.wizards.com/magic/Magazine/Article.aspx?x=mtgcom/daily/af116
Title: Re: isocron scepter and split cards
Post by: particle on April 24, 2014, 02:26:04 PM
Quote from: rarehuntertay on April 24, 2014, 01:51:44 PM
I would say that you could. Reasoning is the same as revealing a split card with cascade. You can cast either side of the card, but not both.
http://www.wizards.com/magic/Magazine/Article.aspx?x=mtgcom/daily/af116

but the cmc of the card is gonna be more than 2 so it wont work with the sceptor.
Title: Re: isocron scepter and split cards
Post by: rarehuntertay on April 24, 2014, 02:52:32 PM
Quote from: particle on April 24, 2014, 02:26:04 PM
Quote from: rarehuntertay on April 24, 2014, 01:51:44 PM
I would say that you could. Reasoning is the same as revealing a split card with cascade. You can cast either side of the card, but not both.
http://www.wizards.com/magic/Magazine/Article.aspx?x=mtgcom/daily/af116

but the cmc of the card is gonna be more than 2 so it wont work with the sceptor.

You are right in that the converted mana cost is over 2. However, if one side of the card has a CC of 2 or less, and is an instant, then I still say that it can be imprinted on the Isochron.

702.101. Fuse
702.101a Fuse is a static ability found on some split cards (see rule 708, "Split Cards") that applies while the card with fuse is in a player's hand. If a player casts a split card with fuse from his or her hand, the player may choose to cast both halves of that split card. This choice is made before putting the split card with fuse onto the stack. The resulting spell is a fused split spell.

708.2. In every zone except the stack, split cards have two sets of characteristics and two converted mana costs. As long as a split card is a spell on the stack, only the characteristics of the half being cast exist. The other half's characteristics are treated as though they didn't exist.

On the stack, a split spell that hasn't been fused has only that half's characteristics and converted mana cost. The other half is treated as though it didn't exist.

12/1/2004: If the copied card is a split card, you may choose to cast either side of the split card, but not both. The split cards Fire/Ice, Illusion/Reality, Night/Day, Stand/Deliver, and Wax/Wane all have at least one side with converted mana cost 2 or less.)

Based on these rulings, I would think that a card such as {Turn // Burn} can be imprinted on the Isochron and that you would be able to cast the Turn part.
Title: Re: isocron scepter and split cards
Post by: Remillo on April 24, 2014, 02:59:36 PM
To simplify everything, here's how it works.

Split Cards in general have two Converted Mana Costs, the right and the left side.  Cards that care about the total CMC of a card (Pain Seer, Dark Tutelage, Dark Confidant), will add them together to get a final result.  Revealing a Turn//Burn to one of those cards will cause you to lose 5 life.  The card asks "What is your CMC?", which gets the answer "3 and 2, total of 5."
Isochron Scepter (and {Sunforger}) work differently.  Isohron Scepter ends up asking the question "Do you have a CMC of 2 or less?".  Turn//Burn replies with "Yes", because its CMCs are 3 and 2.  Because the answer is yes, you can imprint it on the Scepter.  When you go to cast the card using Isochron Scepter's ability, since you're casting a Split card, you get to choose which side you're casting, even if the second side doesn't have a CMC of 2 or less.  In the case of Turn/Burn or others with Fuse, you can't fuse them because they're not being cast from your hand.

Also, one of Isochron Scepter's rulings is this:
12/1/2004: If the copied card is a split card, you may choose to cast either side of the split card, but not both.  (The split cards Fire/Ice, Illusion/Reality, Night/Day, Stand/Deliver, and Wax/Wane all have at least one side with converted mana cost 2 or less)
Title: Re: isocron scepter and split cards
Post by: particle on April 24, 2014, 08:12:31 PM
still unsure about this. gonna talk to the L2s i know and see what they say.