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Magic (The Gathering) => Rules => Topic started by: Avodroc13 on March 29, 2014, 01:17:47 AM

Title: Elixir of Immortality
Post by: Avodroc13 on March 29, 2014, 01:17:47 AM
(Not sure how to link card on the desktop version of this, so if someone could, can you tell me?)

Instance: My friend has Elixir of Immortality on the field. I played Retraction Helix on Archaeomancer then tapped Archaeomancer to return the Elixir to his hand. He states that when I tapped the Archaeomancer to return his Elixir to his hand that it was still on the stack, so he proceeds to use the ability on the Elixir before it resolves. Legit?
Title: Re: Elixir of Immortality
Post by: Sparkle Ninja on March 29, 2014, 01:19:24 AM
Quote from: Avodroc13 on March 29, 2014, 01:17:47 AM
(Not sure how to link card on the desktop version of this, so if someone could, can you tell me?)

Instance: My friend has Elixir of Immortality on the field. I played Retraction Helix on Archaeomancer then tapped Archaeomancer to return the Elixir to his hand. He states that when I tapped the Archaeomancer to return his Elixir to his hand that it was still on the stack, so he proceeds to use the ability on the Elixir before it resolves. Legit?
Yes. The elixir gains priority on the stack and goes to the graveyard creating a deck reshuffle and causing your bounce to fizzle. Tell your friend well played because that was a good move
Title: Re: Elixir of Immortality
Post by: Younghawk on March 29, 2014, 07:45:43 AM
Actually that is wrong. The {elixir of immortality} would bounce to his friends hand but since the ability is on the stack he would get all the effects from it due to elixir not being sacrificed. Wording is very tricky. All that bouncing his elixir did was made sure he could use it again right away.
Title: Re: Elixir of Immortality
Post by: Sardok on March 29, 2014, 07:55:06 AM
Quote from: Younghawk on March 29, 2014, 07:45:43 AM
Actually that is wrong. The {elixir of immortality} would bounce to his friends hand but since the ability is on the stack he would get all the effects from it due to elixir not being sacrificed. Wording is very tricky. All that bouncing his elixir did was made sure he could use it again right away.

Actually this is wrong.

{Elixir of Immortality}'s ability makes you shuffle it into its owner's library. By the time the ability to return it to its owner's hand resolves, {Elixir of Immortality} is no longer in play. Therefore the ability fizzles.
Title: Re: Elixir of Immortality
Post by: Wingnut on March 29, 2014, 07:57:12 AM
No I think she's right,  {Elixir of Immortality}'s ability has to fully resolve before it would be bounced, it would be in the library at the point that it would be lifted.
Title: Re: Elixir of Immortality
Post by: Wingnut on March 29, 2014, 07:57:58 AM
Quote from: Wingnut on March 29, 2014, 07:57:12 AM
No I think she's right,  {Elixir of Immortality}'s ability has to fully resolve before it would be bounced, it would be in the library at the point that it would be lifted.

I got beat.
Title: Re: Elixir of Immortality
Post by: IntoFire on March 29, 2014, 12:40:43 PM
Quote from: Noblellama on March 29, 2014, 09:52:56 AM
Last in first out
You say return the elixir
I then use elixir


Stack unwinds
Elixir gets used
You have an invalid target to return and ability does nothing

I think you mean first one in, last one out. C'mon guys. Just like countering a spell.
Title: Re: Elixir of Immortality
Post by: Remillo on March 29, 2014, 01:18:43 PM
The Elixir's ability still resolves, even if it's not on the battlefield.  Because the ability doesn't have a target, it just does as much as it can, which is shuffling the graveyard in to the library.

9/22/2011: If...  If it's anywhere else by that time, including in another players's graveyard, it remains where it is and you just shuffle your graveyard in to your library.

As for the helix-granted ability, It would just fizzle because the target is no longer not the field.  If the ability was used in response to the Elixir activation, the elixir would remain in the player's hand and their graveyard shuffled in to their library.
Title: Re: Elixir of Immortality
Post by: Remillo on March 29, 2014, 01:22:47 PM
Quote from: Noblellama on March 29, 2014, 01:20:56 PM
Quote from: Remillo on March 29, 2014, 01:18:43 PM
The Elixir's ability still resolves, even if it's not on the battlefield.  Because the ability doesn't have a target, it just does as much as it can, which is shuffling the graveyard in to the library.

9/22/2011: If...  If it's anywhere else by that time, including in another players's graveyard, it remains where it is and you just shuffle your graveyard in to your library.

I want to know how to get a card into someone else's graveyard...

Most likely it's mentioned for if you stole the Elixir, activated the ability, then make sacrificed it to some ability.
Title: Re: Elixir of Immortality
Post by: Remillo on March 29, 2014, 05:38:08 PM
Quote from: Noblellama on March 29, 2014, 03:49:01 PM
Nope, even if you stole it the rules state permanents go to the graveyard of the owner, not the controller

400.3. (http://imtgapp.com/forum/index.php?action=imtg;area=rule;number=400.3.): If an object would go to any library, graveyard, or hand other than its owner's, it goes to its owner's corresponding zone.

Like the ruling said, "Another player's Graveyard".  You steal it and activate the ability, you control the ability.  Sol if you sacrifice it before the ability resolves, it will end up in its owner's graveyard and stay there, per the ruling.
Title: Re: Elixir of Immortality
Post by: MisterJH on March 29, 2014, 09:03:47 PM
Quote from: IntoFire on March 29, 2014, 12:40:43 PM
Quote from: Noblellama on March 29, 2014, 09:52:56 AM
Last in first out
You say return the elixir
I then use elixir


Stack unwinds
Elixir gets used
You have an invalid target to return and ability does nothing

I think you mean first one in, last one out. C'mon guys. Just like countering a spell.
Thats the same thing just said in reverse, just sayin. Last in first out=first in last out
Title: Re: Elixir of Immortality
Post by: Coffee Vampire on March 29, 2014, 09:32:16 PM
I am confused by all this talk of graveyards. {Elixir of Immortality} does not enter the graveyard ever when you activate it. Also if you activate elixir and then it gets removed, the ability still happens. It will do as much as possible, so it will just skip the part about elixir shuffling into your library and you still gain 5 and shuffle your yard into your library.

Edit: remillo has it right btw
Title: Re: Elixir of Immortality
Post by: sithantic on March 30, 2014, 11:49:44 AM
Quote from: IntoFire on March 29, 2014, 12:40:43 PM
Quote from: Noblellama on March 29, 2014, 09:52:56 AM
Last in first out
You say return the elixir
I then use elixir


Stack unwinds
Elixir gets used
You have an invalid target to return and ability does nothing

I think you mean first one in, last one out. C'mon guys. Just like countering a spell.
.

Last in first out is the same as first in last out.
Title: Re: Elixir of Immortality
Post by: Galabranth on March 31, 2014, 08:14:34 AM
Uhh...

Just to answer your first question (no one has offered help yet).

You could check the FAQ/Q&A.

Anyway, here's the format.

(cardname)

The parentheses should be brackets {}. The cardname is the card's name, case sensitive (I think).