{Merieke Ri Berit} taps and steals an active {Karametra, God of Harvests}.
Merieke's player does not have enough devotion to activate Kara as a creature.
Does Kara stay with Merike's player?
We ruled that because Merike's ability doesn't continually target, Kara stayed stolen and Merike could untap without losing Kara.
Quote from: griffin131 on February 25, 2014, 08:07:54 AM
{Merieke Ri Berit} taps and steals an active {Karametra, God of Harvests}.
Merieke's player does not have enough devotion to activate Kara as a creature.
Does Kara stay with Merike's player?
We ruled that because Merike's ability doesn't continually target, Kara stayed stolen and Merike could untap without losing Kara.
This is an interesting question:
Now according to merikes rulings 1 & 3: if she leaves battlefield or you lose control of her: it sends back the stolen creature to its original owner before the destroy ability triggers
According to her 2nd ruling:if you untap her, it triggers only the destroy ability, and since karametra is indestructible, she would not be destroyed. You do not lose control of the creature.
So you would get to keep her.
Would you still be able to steal the creature if it isnt yet a creature?
You can't gain control of target creature if the target is not a creature. Illegal target.
I think we are getting away from the original question.
I think he's referring to the god no longer being a creature when she comes to your side because you don't have the devotion. I think I know what will happen, but I'm not sure, so keeping my mouth shut :)
The god's devotion ability refers to the controller of the god. Since you now control her, if your devotion isn't high enough, she would turn off.
I get that part, what I'm not sure of is when the creature part is turned off, does merike lose control of the god and it go back before you can untap her and trigger the destroy effect? I think yes, but again, I'm not sure.
No in her rulings it states:
If merike is untapped, destroy the creature, but nothing says about losing control of it.
If she leaves the battlefield/you lose control of her: they get their stolen creature back
Leaving the battlefield and untapping are very different
It may have to be a new ruling with her, but if you control it and just don't have the devotion, you just don't have the devotion
Nothing says in her rulings or her rules:
If a creature is no longer a creature return it to its owner
It does say however: if you lose control of merike, you return it back to its owner.
Ok. Tap merike, gain control of a god
God comes over to your side of the table
God checks for devotion and you don't have enough
God loses status as a creature.
All this happens before anyone receives priority, so it can't be responded to
The god is now an illegal target for merike. What happens? Do you retain control of the god even though it is no longer a creature? Do you lose control of the god? If you lose control, does it trigger any of merik's destroy triggers? Etc etc.
Need some advance level judge confirmation on this
This will probably be a new ruling as devotion into creature is a fairly new mechanic
Quote from: Double-O-Scotch on February 26, 2014, 10:58:59 AM
You can't gain control of target creature if the target is not a creature. Illegal target.
God was a creature when stolen - hence using the word "active" in the OP.
I think we need to simplify this. Do you lose control of a god right away if you cast {traitorous instinct} on it?
I can see this question being thrown out for man lands also. Any solid answers anyone?
we have no mods left to answer
right and hes obviously pissed off and isnt too keen on whats happening.
I don't have the official ruling but I did some research
Merike's ability only cares if it's a creature when it's activated, and when I resolves. After that, no matter what happens to the permanent, the ability still gives back the permanent
I'm going to inquire with a few judges this weekend at game day
Her rulings/text imply loss of control only if merike leaves the battlefield or you lose control of her.
Her rulings state: if she is untapped the "destroy" ability triggers
But no loss of control of the creature
And according to gatherer discussion: if the creature you take is indestructible and you untap her, you keep creature indefinitely
I'm going to find the rule for you, but it might take a little bit, as I'm still catching up with the events of the last couple days/doing damage control.
Basically, as far as Merieke's ability goes, treat the god as if it were still a creature. When her ability says "creature" it isn't referring specifically to the card type, but the object that has been stolen (as it was a creature at the time of the steal). The fact that it stopped being a creature won't stop the effect. The same can be said for Gideon type effects, manlands, etc.
Merike is a beast for commander :)
Quote from: Muggywuggy on February 28, 2014, 05:18:52 PM
Merike is a beast for commander :)
I have to agree, I just put together a deck thinking it would be fun, I didn't think it would regularly beat my best deck which usually puts the smack down.
My esper merike deck is my answer for people who want to play lockdown