So since I have my first real standard deck ever (so, not counting my {maze's end} deck), I am considering (not very strongly) going to a PTQ. I'm sure I'd lose quickly, but it might be good to get an idea of what it's like. Also I want to get some use out of my standard deck. :)
So. The questions for you guys who play more competitively than I do is:
1. How stupid is it for someone who mainly plays casual and plays very little standard to go to a PTQ? Complete waste of money, I'm guessing. (If you tell me this is true, I won't be offended. Just try to be nice about it ;) )
2. I'm sure the rules are much stricter at PTQs. What are some basic things to remember (if I decide to go) so I'm less likely to get disqualified?
Thanks in advance. I really appreciate the help.
If looking at my deck would help in any way, it's called "UW Agro" and should be on the first or second page of standard decks.
1. If you enjoy the competitive experience then its pretty much worth it right there. If you expect to lose, it's only unwise if you do not believe that the entry fee is worth playing the minimum number of matches. Otherwise you will have, at the very least, learned from failure, and that'll just make you a better player.
2. Umm, untap before you draw?
Read up on the sticked thread about the stack and make sure you're aware of all rulings on the cards in the deck you will enter with
I don't understand abbreviations. Could someone please explain what PTQ means?
Quote from: Steerpike on February 23, 2014, 10:24:07 PM
1. If you enjoy the competitive experience then its pretty much worth it right there. If you expect to lose, it's only unwise if you do not believe that the entry fee is worth playing the minimum number of matches.
2. Umm, untap before you draw?
Read up on the sticked thread about the stack and make sure you're aware of all rulings on the cards in the deck you will enter with
Thanks for the suggestions, and +1 :)
1. While I generally play casual, I like to try different things, so that's a good idea to keep in mind when I lose and get mad ;)
2. I like to think I'm pretty good at the rules. I play casual more because of the money, not because it's less complicated (even though sometimes it isn't, especially with my melek/think twice deck, for example.)
But the rulings on the cards in my deck is a good idea, thanks.
1 question: if someone forgets to untap something and then draws, is it legal to not let them untap it until next turn?
Quote from: Sparkle Ninja on February 23, 2014, 10:27:45 PM
I don't understand abbreviations. Could someone please explain what PTQ means?
Pro Tour Qualifier.
Ahhh. Ok. I considered going to one of those with my mono white deck a little while ago. Then I realised I didn't want to pay money to lose to some stupid good deck
Quote from: Sparkle Ninja on February 23, 2014, 10:31:03 PM
Ahhh. Ok. I considered going to one of those with my mono white deck a little while ago. Then I realised I didn't want to pay money to lose to some stupid good deck
Yeah, that was my thought too. I'm going to see how my deck does at game day and then decide. So far in testing I don't think it has lost a game, so I'm optimistic.
Considering my last record at game day, that may not be a great idea. :P
My last game day was really good. the next one I'm running a burn deck built around comboing out a {Guttersnipe} {Epic Experiment} for the win
Quote from: E.kann1 on February 23, 2014, 10:29:30 PM
Quote from: Steerpike on February 23, 2014, 10:24:07 PM
1. If you enjoy the competitive experience then its pretty much worth it right there. If you expect to lose, it's only unwise if you do not believe that the entry fee is worth playing the minimum number of matches.
2. Umm, untap before you draw?
Read up on the sticked thread about the stack and make sure you're aware of all rulings on the cards in the deck you will enter with
Thanks for the suggestions, and +1 :)
1. While I generally play casual, I like to try different things, so that's a good idea to keep in mind when I lose and get mad ;)
2. I like to think I'm pretty good at the rules. I play casual more because of the money, not because it's less complicated (even though sometimes it isn't, especially with my melek/think twice deck, for example.)
But the rulings on the cards in my deck is a good idea, thanks.
1 question: if someone forgets to untap something and then draws, is it legal to not let them untap it until next turn?
Because the pro tour is the highest level of competition (right?), I would enter assuming that 1. The rules of the game will be followed in the strictest sense, and 2. Your opponents won't let an opportunity to take advantage of a mistake go away.
Quote from: Sparkle Ninja on February 23, 2014, 10:35:32 PM
My last game day was really good. the next one I'm running a burn deck built around comboing out a {Guttersnipe} {Epic Experiment} for the win
Sounds like fun :)
My last game day was terrible, 1-5 with maze's end. Oh yeah, and the one win was a bye. Lol. I had two game wins the whole event.
Test test test and then go for it!
Quote from: Muggywuggy on February 23, 2014, 11:51:59 PM
Test test test and then go for it!
Most of my testing has been actually wall games as I don't really have people to play with or enough time to test a lot, but I think my deck should do well. I'm playing it as game day so I'll see how it does then too.
Cockatrice
I'd say go for it if you're interested. I went to a sealed PTQ in November even though I'm not great at limited nor do I play Standard, but it was still a bunch of fun despite going 0-2 and dropping (then I got to go play in all the side events!).
The rules enforcement level (REL) will be higher but its not like judges are looming over your shoulder waiting for you to make mistakes, and most opponents are understanding when/if you make a small mistake. On the other hand, never be afraid to call a judge if you're unsure of an interaction or think you're opponent might be doing something incorrectly.
Quote from: Lyriczulu on February 24, 2014, 11:39:44 AM
I'd say go for it if you're interested. I went to a sealed PTQ in November even though I'm not great at limited nor do I play Standard, but it was still a bunch of fun despite going 0-2 and dropping (then I got to go play in all the side events!).
The rules enforcement level (REL) will be higher but its not like judges are looming over your shoulder waiting for you to make mistakes, and most opponents are understanding when/if you make a small mistake. On the other hand, never be afraid to call a judge if you're unsure of an interaction or think you're opponent might be doing something incorrectly.
Sounds like a good idea. I guess I should probably read up a little bit on that level of rules enforcement.
Thanks and +1 :)
Wow. I just started looking at the rules for Competitive REL, and they're much stricter than I thought. I didn't even know you needed to register a decklist... wow.
Guess I have a lot of learning to do...
If you want to avoid breaking the rules, a great thing to do is to study how the phases progress, how priority works, when people get priority, and also know how to cast a spell. The last one may seem simple, but it's not as straightforward as one might think. In the comprehensive rules, search "casting spells".
It's actually really helpful to start playing with competitive REL in mind. You begin to understand the importance of declaring phases, how to correct your own misplay without a "take back" & how to watch your opponent for potential cheating.
Also you will definitely just want to buy a new pack of sleeves for the event.
Make sure you don't do any modifications to your deck after you've submitted your decklist. You could plow thru and then forget that you changed a land by 1 at your previous FNM, then end up DQing yourself.
Also: don't let another person(opponent or non judge) tell you what you can and can't do. That's what judges are for, it's very easy to let some boardtalk of spectators affect your playing decisions
That's some solid advice, Muggy. +1
Edit: oh also make sure you always shuffle your opponent's deck after they present. Don't just cut.
Quote from: Muggywuggy on February 24, 2014, 06:23:38 PM
Also you will definitely just want to buy a new pack of sleeves for the event.
Do you think that's really necessary? I was hoping to avoid opening a few of the packs of sleeves I have lying around right now...
Quote from: Coffee Vampire on February 24, 2014, 06:23:35 PM
If you want to avoid breaking the rules, a great thing to do is to study how the phases progress, how priority works, when people get priority, and also know how to cast a spell. The last one may seem simple, but it's not as straightforward as one might think. In the comprehensive rules, search "casting spells".
I'm pretty good with priority, but casting spells and phases is something to work on.
Thanks for the help, and +1
Using new sleeves ensures that there won't be any problems with "marked" sleeves that are just a bit worn out. It's not absolutely necessary but it can avoid any problems if you're using older sleeves. Another tip is to not use sleeves with designs on them unless you're confident a card or two will never get turned around while shuffling because it can be misconstrued as a marked card.
Quote from: Lyriczulu on February 24, 2014, 06:58:04 PM
Using new sleeves ensures that there won't be any problems with "marked" sleeves that are just a bit worn out. It's not absolutely necessary but it can avoid any problems if you're using older sleeves. Another tip is to not use sleeves with designs on them unless you're confident a card or two will never get turned around while shuffling because it can be misconstrued as a marked card.
I had someone mention that to me last game day. As those are the only sleeves I have right now, I'm planning to use them and shuffle carefully. I guess I'll just have to either buy some new sleeves or put some new ones that I already have (with designs) on them. :(
I have so many old worn out sleeves around that I can't actually use. I guess I can use them for a cheap commander deck.
I have these awesome foily styled kmc sleeves I use for my standard deck, but I figure at a bigger tourney just gotta buy a new pack of matte sleeves
Quote from: Muggywuggy on February 24, 2014, 08:06:07 PM
I have these awesome foily styled kmc sleeves I use for my standard deck, but I figure at a bigger tourney just gotta buy a new pack of matte sleeves
I still have some unopened packs of the old nicol bolas horns thing from m13. I use those for everything (that way I have lots of spares) but I guess I better buy or borrow some matte sleeves. :(
As others have said, make sure you follow all rules and get new sleeves. Other things to think about: try to look pro and don't be afraid to bluff. As for the pro part, if you make yourself look like you know what you are doing, you're opponent might overthink plays. If you intimidate your opponent, even a stupid misplay turns into a head game as he (or she) tries to figure out what is going on. As for bluffing, try to practice it before you go, so you are convincing. Bluffing includes reaching for you pen when you have a play, adjusting your lands and not playing cards so that you have a hand. The last one is the trickiest, but the best thing to do is keep back lands. BE CAREFUL though. Don't hold back a land on turn two, but if its turn 7 and you've already made your land drops, why should you play the land? Its better (many times, not always) to hold it back and make your opponent fear what it might be. They may hold something back if they think you have a counterspell or be more careful about plays if they think you have removal.
Quote from: Agrus Kos, Enforcer of Truth on February 24, 2014, 09:51:50 PM
As others have said, make sure you follow all rules and get new sleeves. Other things to think about: try to look pro and don't be afraid to bluff. As for the pro part, if you make yourself look like you know what you are doing, you're opponent might overthink plays. If you intimidate your opponent, even a stupid misplay turns into a head game as he (or she) tries to figure out what is going on. As for bluffing, try to practice it before you go, so you are convincing. Bluffing includes reaching for you pen when you have a play, adjusting your lands and not playing cards so that you have a hand. The last one is the trickiest, but the best thing to do is keep back lands. BE CAREFUL though. Don't hold back a land on turn two, but if its turn 7 and you've already made your land drops, why should you play the land? Its better (many times, not always) to hold it back and make your opponent fear what it might be. They may hold something back if they think you have a counterspell or be more careful about plays if they think you have removal.
All good advice. Thanks and +1
You guys are great! So helpful :)
keep track of what the opponent has played so you know the rough probability of whether or not its likely they have it in their hand. Thats what i do in just normal FnM. It helps you to make decisions on how to play out your hand. I'm not sure if you can, but see about bringing a notebook so you can document what they've played so far. It helps you to get the idea of what the deck does and how it functions as well as with the likelyhood of getting another one. I hope this helped
Quote from: Sparkle Ninja on February 24, 2014, 10:09:44 PM
keep track of what the opponent has played so you know the rough probability of whether or not its likely they have it in their hand. Thats what i do in just normal FnM. It helps you to make decisions on how to play out your hand. I'm not sure if you can, but see about bringing a notebook so you can document what they've played so far. It helps you to get the idea of what the deck does and how it functions as well as with the likelyhood of getting another one. I hope this helped
I appreciate all advice, every bit of information helps. +1 :)
anyone here (Kaleo, maybe?) know about the legality of bringing a notebook/something else to write down what they played?
Quote from: E.kann1 on February 24, 2014, 10:13:42 PM
Quote from: Sparkle Ninja on February 24, 2014, 10:09:44 PM
keep track of what the opponent has played so you know the rough probability of whether or not its likely they have it in their hand. Thats what i do in just normal FnM. It helps you to make decisions on how to play out your hand. I'm not sure if you can, but see about bringing a notebook so you can document what they've played so far. It helps you to get the idea of what the deck does and how it functions as well as with the likelyhood of getting another one. I hope this helped
I appreciate all advice, every bit of information helps. +1 :)
anyone here (Kaleo, maybe?) know about the legality of bringing a notebook/something else to write down what they played?
I am about 99% sure that you can bring pen and paper and write down what they have played. I have seen people write down hands off a {Thoughtseize} at the Pro Tour, so I don't see a problem with writing things down at a PTQ.
Quote from: Agrus Kos, Enforcer of Truth on February 24, 2014, 10:33:58 PM
Quote from: E.kann1 on February 24, 2014, 10:13:42 PM
Quote from: Sparkle Ninja on February 24, 2014, 10:09:44 PM
keep track of what the opponent has played so you know the rough probability of whether or not its likely they have it in their hand. Thats what i do in just normal FnM. It helps you to make decisions on how to play out your hand. I'm not sure if you can, but see about bringing a notebook so you can document what they've played so far. It helps you to get the idea of what the deck does and how it functions as well as with the likelyhood of getting another one. I hope this helped
I appreciate all advice, every bit of information helps. +1 :)
anyone here (Kaleo, maybe?) know about the legality of bringing a notebook/something else to write down what they played?
I am about 99% sure that you can bring pen and paper and write down what they have played. I have seen people write down hands off a {Thoughtseize} at the Pro Tour, so I don't see a problem with writing things down at a PTQ.
Sounds good, thanks.
I'm not going to be unhappy if I don't win; I don't expect to. I'm just going to give it a try, see if it's fun, and maybe trade a bit.
However, I don't want to go if I'll be unhappy because I lose every round. So, I have one more requests for you guys: could you take a quick look at my almost final decklist? I don't need you to spend time making suggestions; all I'd like is a quick and honest opinion of whether it has any type of a chance to win a few rounds or so, assuming I play relatively well. It's call "UW agro", and it's under standard decks, of course. (Unless there are modern PTQs?)
Thanks again, you guys are awesome with all your help. More +1s will be given out in 24 hrs when I can ;)
I appreciate all the help with this, the help from people more experienced with competitive level magic makes it so much easier for me.
Could you post or bump your decklist so we can help you with it? Also, try playtesting against the top decks (Monoblue, monoblack, esper, RG Monsters, ect.) and see how your deck fairs, what you can do to help beat them. Use the wall games, people, Cockatrice, whatever.
Quote from: E.kann1 on February 24, 2014, 11:04:30 PM
It's call "UW agro", and it's under standard decks.
Problem for me wit playtesting is time and play group. I don't really have anyone to test with, except people on wall games. So I've never even played against RG monsters once with this deck. Well, hopefully game day will do that.
Anyway, I've found and started reading the tournament rules. Very useful stuff to know. Relatively short too. At least compared to the normal ones...
When I get on a computer later I'll post a link to the deck
I learned this the hard way. Just relax an have fun. While yes you are paying for the tournament and blah the overall experience and learning is what you need to walk away with. Relax, play the game, think and be clear of your plan. If you feel yourself getting stressed then take a deep breath and try to find your zen zone. Good luck if you do go.
Quote from: SoshiGanrou on February 25, 2014, 02:34:41 AM
I learned this the hard way. Just relax an have fun. While yes you are paying for the tournament and blah the overall experience and learning is what you need to walk away with. Relax, play the game, think and be clear of your plan. If you feel yourself getting stressed then take a deep breath and try to find your zen zone. Good luck if you do go.
So true +1
Yeah, I'm probably stressing out about this too much. :(
Thanks and +1
Don't forget to eat and hydrate :)
Also know your sideboard. And what you need to side in for what matches. Know the weaknesses in your deck and what to do about it, but even more inmportantly what are the weaknesses in the other decks that you can exploit.
Know your optimal plays before you even get the cards, so when you see them you know what's going to happen before it does. This will lower your stress levels and allow you to make better decisions. Again, all of this comes down to play testing. Get on cockatrice and play your deck verses every tier 1 and 2 deck there is.
That's hours of testing right there but it helps when you are up against one of these decks.
Most of all when you are there, win/lose or draw, you are there to have fun. So enjoy it :)
Quote from: Agrus Kos, Enforcer of Truth on February 24, 2014, 09:51:50 PM
As others have said, make sure you follow all rules and get new sleeves. Other things to think about: try to look pro and don't be afraid to bluff. As for the pro part, if you make yourself look like you know what you are doing, you're opponent might overthink plays. If you intimidate your opponent, even a stupid misplay turns into a head game as he (or she) tries to figure out what is going on. As for bluffing, try to practice it before you go, so you are convincing. Bluffing includes reaching for you pen when you have a play, adjusting your lands and not playing cards so that you have a hand.
Possible to get a short explanation of some of these useful bluffs, other things?
I'd assume the tapping lands thing is to make it look like you're counting out the mana for a response you're holding...
my advice is to have fun and do your best.
if you lose, then that's just the way it is, but be sure to learn from your loss rather than be bitter about it.
Predict planeswalkers
If you're creature heavy and they go blue/black
You better pithing needle ashiok
No pithing needle?
Adjust before you head in ;)
Quote from: E.kann1 on February 27, 2014, 12:30:29 AM
Quote from: Agrus Kos, Enforcer of Truth on February 24, 2014, 09:51:50 PM
As others have said, make sure you follow all rules and get new sleeves. Other things to think about: try to look pro and don't be afraid to bluff. As for the pro part, if you make yourself look like you know what you are doing, you're opponent might overthink plays. If you intimidate your opponent, even a stupid misplay turns into a head game as he (or she) tries to figure out what is going on. As for bluffing, try to practice it before you go, so you are convincing. Bluffing includes reaching for you pen when you have a play, adjusting your lands and not playing cards so that you have a hand.
Possible to get a short explanation of some of these useful bluffs, other things?
I'd assume the tapping lands thing is to make it look like you're counting out the mana for a response you're holding...
You're correct with the lands.
The Pen Trick is when you reach for your pen when someone deals damage to you (with creatures or spells). It makes your opponent think that you are going to take the damage/have no response and may get your opponent to overextend (for example, cast a pump spell when you have a kill spell in hand).
The not playing cards in hand also helps to bluff that you have a response. This one is tricky because you shouldn't hold back cards for no reason, but the best time to do this is in a grindy match. If its turn 10 and you have 8 lands on the field, what value do you get from that 9th land? (assuming you don't have X casting cost spells) Ask yourself, is it better for me to play this land, or is it better for my opponent to think that I might have a response?
Literally if I had to give you one good thing of advice it is to be mentally prepared, after you play X matches you are going to feel tired and make a ton of misplays due to not playing in a competitive environment constantly. Bring snacks to keep you from getting hungry and always a thing of water.
I personally just played at the SCG Open in St. Louis and I will say for my first big event it was an experience, starting 0-2 and then going on a 4-0 win streak is one of the greatest feelings ever. But then after 6 hours of play I saw myself making mistakes and it lead to two straight losses but other than that just take a deep breath and have fun it is definately worth the experience
Thanks for the advice.
Quote from: E.kann1 on February 27, 2014, 06:12:19 PM
Thanks for the advice.
Just sneak {Storm Crow}s into your deck list and then you can't lose!
Quote from: StormCrow on February 27, 2014, 06:45:13 PM
Quote from: E.kann1 on February 27, 2014, 06:12:19 PM
Thanks for the advice.
Just sneak {Storm Crow}s into your deck list and then you can't lose!
I would, but they do deck checks... :( :P
Quote from: E.kann1 on February 27, 2014, 06:45:53 PM
Quote from: StormCrow on February 27, 2014, 06:45:13 PM
Quote from: E.kann1 on February 27, 2014, 06:12:19 PM
Thanks for the advice.
Just sneak {Storm Crow}s into your deck list and then you can't lose!
I would, but they do deck checks... :( :P
Storm Crow has protection from everything, including deck checks!
If you're sneaking stuff into play/decks anyway...{cheatyface} is the way to go.
True. :)