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Decks (Magic The Gathering) => Commander => Topic started by: Gorzo on February 03, 2014, 12:13:40 AM

Title: SYLVAN PRIMORDIAL BANNED
Post by: Gorzo on February 03, 2014, 12:13:40 AM
Yup. The first commander ban in about a year.

{Sylvan Primordial} has been given the official axe by the powers that be at mtgcommander.net.

Sorry to be the bearer of bad news, my friends :(
Title: Re: SYLVAN PRIMORDIAL BANNED
Post by: Moneekahh on February 03, 2014, 12:18:44 AM
:(
Title: Re: SYLVAN PRIMORDIAL BANNED
Post by: xStrayKnightx on February 03, 2014, 12:49:34 AM
Wow...that sucks. Makes sense though.
Title: Re: SYLVAN PRIMORDIAL BANNED
Post by: Vileo on February 03, 2014, 12:52:22 AM
THANK GOD. I was SO sick of having my lands blown up by this dick on MtGO. The Karador decks that just sac/recast him, the Roon decks that flicker him 50 times, the other Bant goodstuff decks that cast {Rite of Replication} on him... This card was a genuine pest and I'm glad it is banned.
Title: Re: SYLVAN PRIMORDIAL BANNED
Post by: particle on February 03, 2014, 01:21:07 AM
YESSSS. this makes me so happy. stop blowing up all my stuff. now maybe i wont have to run {torpor orb}.
Title: Re: SYLVAN PRIMORDIAL BANNED
Post by: Stoneco1d869 on February 03, 2014, 02:51:56 AM
I get that it can be abused, however there are countless others that are in this format, so again I am left a little confused. I love the format, however get a feeling that this small group makes changes based on their individual play group..lol
Title: Re: SYLVAN PRIMORDIAL BANNED
Post by: Vileo on February 03, 2014, 03:29:28 AM
Quote from: Stoneco1d869 on February 03, 2014, 02:51:56 AM
I get that it can be abused, however there are countless others that are in this format, so again I am left a little confused. I love the format, however get a feeling that this small group makes changes based on their individual play group..lol
The reason Sylvan was banned above, say, {Terastodon} is because it both destroys something (from each player) and advances the amount of mana you have available. By abusing this with a kicked {Rite of Replication} in a 4 player game, you blow up 18 permanents and fetch 18 forests into play tapped. That is and incredibly one-sided effect. Outrageously so. If it were only "fetch a land for each opponent" or "blow up a permanent for each opponent" it would be a lot more balanced. It could still be abused, but not as much as the combined effect.
Title: Re: SYLVAN PRIMORDIAL BANNED
Post by: MuggyWuggy on February 03, 2014, 03:42:21 AM
In multiplayer he just owns up the field so fast and green already has ramp
Title: Re: SYLVAN PRIMORDIAL BANNED
Post by: Stoneco1d869 on February 03, 2014, 05:07:43 AM
Quote from: Vileo on February 03, 2014, 03:29:28 AM
Quote from: Stoneco1d869 on February 03, 2014, 02:51:56 AM
I get that it can be abused, however there are countless others that are in this format, so again I am left a little confused. I love the format, however get a feeling that this small group makes changes based on their individual play group..lol
The reason Sylvan was banned above, say, {Terastodon} is because it both destroys something (from each player) and advances the amount of mana you have available. By abusing this with a kicked {Rite of Replication} in a 4 player game, you blow up 18 permanents and fetch 18 forests into play tapped. That is and incredibly one-sided effect. Outrageously so. If it were only "fetch a land for each opponent" or "blow up a permanent for each opponent" it would be a lot more balanced. It could still be abused, but not as much as the combined effect.

I can do similar things with {rite of replication}, but your board must also be stable enough to pull off casting it in the first place(9 mana plus 8 for the primordial), both cards in fact so I don't see your point.

Of anything you make the case to ban RoR, don't you agree? It is what allows for the brokenness.

RoR can also be combined with the K, the Evening Star...
Title: Re: SYLVAN PRIMORDIAL BANNED
Post by: Stoneco1d869 on February 03, 2014, 05:09:41 AM
I guess in my play group he is heavily played, however I don't have an "oh crap" feeling when I see him hit the board.  I prefer him dropped over an Eldrazi with haste any day.
Title: Re: SYLVAN PRIMORDIAL BANNED
Post by: MuggyWuggy on February 03, 2014, 05:24:08 AM
Same
He's just as annoying as Iona but he doesn't lock the game up or make it an immediate game over, removing concloset, palinchron and dead eye would take a lot of unfair combos out IMO but then people will still gripe
Title: Re: SYLVAN PRIMORDIAL BANNED
Post by: Brawler_1337 on February 03, 2014, 12:50:02 PM
I'm a little sad, but that's only because I use him in two decks. I'm happy SP's getting the axe. He was unfair on so many levels. He was like a mini PrimeTime in that he was cloned often and flickered to oblivion. He and {Deadeye Navigator} were just dumb.

Good riddance.
Title: Re: SYLVAN PRIMORDIAL BANNED
Post by: Wingnut on February 03, 2014, 01:07:55 PM
Yeah it's a bummer. I replaced mine with a   {Terastodon}, not the same results, but I'll make home work.
Title: Re: SYLVAN PRIMORDIAL BANNED
Post by: ApexPredator on February 03, 2014, 01:30:49 PM
I already have terastadon now I need to find new cards for that slot in my decks.
Title: Re: SYLVAN PRIMORDIAL BANNED
Post by: Arzair on February 03, 2014, 05:17:37 PM
Ugh... They always ban what they don't like rather than things that actually are problems...

The biggest problem here is what do we play now in its place? Because primetime became sylvan primordial ... Ugh... Curves and colors oh my.. Going to force a partial rebuild ... The RC sucks.
Title: Re: SYLVAN PRIMORDIAL BANNED
Post by: InfinitiveDivinity on February 03, 2014, 06:26:06 PM
What The heck am I going to do with my foil?
Title: Re: SYLVAN PRIMORDIAL BANNED
Post by: Vileo on February 03, 2014, 07:44:22 PM
Quote from: InfinitiveDivinity on February 03, 2014, 06:26:06 PM
What The heck am I going to do with my foil?
I know what I would do with your foil.
Title: Re: SYLVAN PRIMORDIAL BANNED
Post by: Agrajagzz9 on February 03, 2014, 08:14:56 PM
Your whole $8.00 foil? Burn it in effigy? That's what I will be doing with my foil. The card will likely never be unbanned. Or find someone willing to trade for foil terastadon
Title: Re: SYLVAN PRIMORDIAL BANNED
Post by: DYMongoose on February 04, 2014, 10:26:48 AM
Hopefully I can get a game in with my friends before they realize the banning has been declared (we don't play by RC rules as law, more like suggestion). I play so rarely anymore that I don't think I've even had a chance to cast the card  a single time. What a waste...
Title: Re: SYLVAN PRIMORDIAL BANNED
Post by: Ertai on February 04, 2014, 11:34:27 PM
Can someone explain to me how they can ban cards in non sanctioned formats?

My real question is, who would uphold this ban list?
Title: Re: SYLVAN PRIMORDIAL BANNED
Post by: Agrus Kos, Enforcer of Truth on February 05, 2014, 12:14:58 AM
Quote from: Ertai on February 04, 2014, 11:34:27 PM
Can someone explain to me how they can ban cards in non sanctioned formats?

My real question is, who would uphold this ban list?
There is an official counsel. http://mtgcommander.net/rules.php
Title: Re: SYLVAN PRIMORDIAL BANNED
Post by: fj76ts4 on February 05, 2014, 12:53:16 AM
Quote from: Ertai on February 05, 2014, 12:34:39 AM
Anyone with a real answer? That literally told me nothing.

It's more useful for random MTGO games- it's more fun if you know certain broken cards are banned ahead of time, so you don't need to worry about someone being "that guy" and winning on t2 before you can do anything because he dropped a bunch of money into it.
Title: Re: SYLVAN PRIMORDIAL BANNED
Post by: Stoneco1d869 on February 05, 2014, 01:01:11 AM
Quote from: Ertai on February 04, 2014, 11:34:27 PM
Can someone explain to me how they can ban cards in non sanctioned formats?

My real question is, who would uphold this ban list?

It is my understanding that the group that came up with the format is who sets the ban list. Wizards of the Coast just go along with it, however it by no means is law for house games or whatever.

Now that more EDH tournaments are popping up, it may become something that more people follow.
Title: Re: SYLVAN PRIMORDIAL BANNED
Post by: Ertai on February 05, 2014, 02:30:41 AM
That makes a lot more sense. Thanks for clarifying that for me.
Title: Re: SYLVAN PRIMORDIAL BANNED
Post by: InfinitiveDivinity on February 05, 2014, 03:10:37 PM
Quote from: Stoneco1d869 on February 05, 2014, 01:01:11 AM
Quote from: Ertai on February 04, 2014, 11:34:27 PM
Can someone explain to me how they can ban cards in non sanctioned formats?

My real question is, who would uphold this ban list?

It is my understanding that the group that came up with the format is who sets the ban list. Wizards of the Coast just go along with it, however it by no means is law for house games or whatever.

Now that more EDH tournaments are popping up, it may become something that more people follow.
That's not even close to true. EDH (a.k.a. "Commander") is most definitely a sanctioned format. Sure it is mainly casual, but there are some people who take it very seriously. My LGS hosts EDH tourneys every week on Thursdays.
Title: Re: SYLVAN PRIMORDIAL BANNED
Post by: Ertai on February 05, 2014, 03:45:27 PM
Lots of LGS host EDH tourneys, but to my understanding, it's not something you can find in a Grand Prix, or a SCG tourney either.

If it was made by a group of people who aren't affiliated to WotC, then it can't be sanctioned. Right? I'm honestly not sure.
Title: Re: SYLVAN PRIMORDIAL BANNED
Post by: Vileo on February 05, 2014, 04:11:12 PM
EDH is not a sanctioned format. You can hold "tournaments" for non-sanctioned formats, but it's not really anything like a GP or a PT. EDH is not sanctioned by DCI.
Title: Re: SYLVAN PRIMORDIAL BANNED
Post by: MuggyWuggy on February 05, 2014, 04:40:43 PM
If EDH was sanctioned I'd have a lot of byes for the next gp
Title: Re: SYLVAN PRIMORDIAL BANNED
Post by: Vileo on February 05, 2014, 08:30:39 PM
If EDH were sanctioned if always have a deck for FNM.
Title: Re: SYLVAN PRIMORDIAL BANNED
Post by: Arzair on February 06, 2014, 12:39:53 AM
Quote from: Muggywuggy on February 05, 2014, 04:40:43 PM
If EDH was sanctioned I'd have a lot of byes for the next gp

If EDH were sanctioned... It's only a matter of time.

But here is the real question... Will it be 1v1 or some sort of multiplayer format?
;)
;)
;)

Title: Re: SYLVAN PRIMORDIAL BANNED
Post by: Vileo on February 06, 2014, 02:40:55 AM
They'd have to do both.
Title: Re: SYLVAN PRIMORDIAL BANNED
Post by: Mattao19 on February 06, 2014, 04:35:07 PM
I thought French EDH was sanctioned. Or am I wrong?
Title: Re: SYLVAN PRIMORDIAL BANNED
Post by: InfinitiveDivinity on February 06, 2014, 06:21:31 PM
Quote from: Mattao19 on February 06, 2014, 04:35:07 PM
I thought French EDH was sanctioned. Or am I wrong?
I'm pretty sure it is.
Title: Re: SYLVAN PRIMORDIAL BANNED
Post by: MuggyWuggy on February 06, 2014, 07:10:42 PM
It's not dci
Title: Re: SYLVAN PRIMORDIAL BANNED
Post by: abstractApathist on February 06, 2014, 08:54:03 PM
Quote from: InfinitiveDivinity on February 06, 2014, 06:21:31 PM
Quote from: Mattao19 on February 06, 2014, 04:35:07 PM
I thought French EDH was sanctioned. Or am I wrong?
I'm pretty sure it is.
Sanctioned means that it is a format with which Grand Prix's, Pro Tours, and other WotC-Sponsored events can be held, so Standard, Block Constructed, Extended, Modern, Legacy, Vintage, Sealed, Booster Draft, and Two-Headed Giant. No form of commander is sanctioned.

http://www.wizards.com/Magic/TCG/Resources.aspx?x=mtg/tcg/resources/formats-sanctioned