Now I know somebody is going to get ticked at me for asking this, but isn't Hero's Downfall effectively just a murder with a gold symbol and a different name? It does the same thing ninety percent of the time and if you really need to remove a planeswalker you can always render them useless by using a pithing needle which costs two less. Please explain what it is I'm missing but it just doesn't make sense
The value comes with being able to choose. They can Hero's Downfall an Elspeth or a Stormbreath in one turn without adding extra bulk to your deck. Just another option to make a deck more efficient and have multiple uses for many situations instead on one kill card for this and one detain card for that.
Ya feelin' me? :)
Also a lot of the black removal is conditional. It is either multicolored, monocolored, black creature, nonblack creature... Being able to get any creature or a planes walker makes it very efficient for a deck.
Instant is huge here. Being able to shoot down their fatty or PW on their turn is awesome.
Murder was an instant. Dreadbore does the same thing for even less and somehow the price has gone down
Quote from: Sparkle Ninja on January 23, 2014, 09:45:16 PM
Murder was an instant. Dreadbore does the same thing for even less and somehow the price has gone down
{Dreadbore} is a Sorcery as well as being two-colored. Just not as good :/ plus Red/Black hasn't been a super force lately; with this next set coming out, I'm sure Minotaurs will make that change.
I rather like the new minotaur thing. I used to run a human tribal deck. and could you please recommend some cool stuff for my Blue/White deck?
I think its overpriced also, but it happens all the time. I think the best example of this phenomenon in MTG is Modern Discard spells. {Thoughtsieze} is $17 (was $30), {Inquisition of Kozilek} is like $7-8 and {Duress} is dirt (like $0.10). They all do the same basic thing, but there are slight differences in how they do it and what they can do. Magic players only like the best, and are willing to pay for it.
Quote from: Agrus Kos, Enforcer of Truth on January 23, 2014, 10:02:43 PM
I think its overpriced also, but it happens all the time. I think the best example of this phenomenon in MTG is Modern Discard spells. {Thoughtsieze} is $17 (was $30), {Inquisition of Kozilek} is like $7-8 and {Duress} is dirt (like $0.10). They all do the same basic thing, but there are slight differences in how they do it and what they can do. Magic players only like the best, and are willing to pay for it.
Inquisition doesn't hit Karn, Duress doesn't hit creatures, yet Thoughtseize hits everything :P I do agree that it's silly that they're all the sameish but T Seize is just WAY better than Inquisition and Inquistion is WAY better than Duress.
Also, Heros Downfall is just good. It removes threats period. Sure you can play {Doom Blade} but what if they play monoblack, you can play {Ultimate Price} but what if they are about to monstrous a {Fleecemane Lion}, you can also play {Devour Flesh} but what if they have other creatures out? Having said that I run 2x Downfall and 2x Dev. Flesh bc sometimes the 2 mana vs. 3 is relevant!
I keep pulling them :)
Quote from: Muggywuggy on January 24, 2014, 04:03:46 PM
I keep pulling them :)
But I have to keep getting {Hundred-Handed One}?????? Oh the humanity!
Quote from: Mattao19 on January 24, 2014, 01:02:40 PM
Quote from: Agrus Kos, Enforcer of Truth on January 23, 2014, 10:02:43 PM
I think its overpriced also, but it happens all the time. I think the best example of this phenomenon in MTG is Modern Discard spells. {Thoughtsieze} is $17 (was $30), {Inquisition of Kozilek} is like $7-8 and {Duress} is dirt (like $0.10). They all do the same basic thing, but there are slight differences in how they do it and what they can do. Magic players only like the best, and are willing to pay for it.
Inquisition doesn't hit Karn, Duress doesn't hit creatures, yet Thoughtseize hits everything :P I do agree that it's silly that they're all the sameish but T Seize is just WAY better than Inquisition and Inquistion is WAY better than Duress.
I realize {Thoughtsieze} is better, I was just pointing out an example of how some cards are very similar, but EXTREMELY different when it comes to playability and price.
Quote from: Mattao19 on January 24, 2014, 01:02:40 PM
Quote from: Agrus Kos, Enforcer of Truth on January 23, 2014, 10:02:43 PM
I think its overpriced also, but it happens all the time. I think the best example of this phenomenon in MTG is Modern Discard spells. {Thoughtsieze} is $17 (was $30), {Inquisition of Kozilek} is like $7-8 and {Duress} is dirt (like $0.10). They all do the same basic thing, but there are slight differences in how they do it and what they can do. Magic players only like the best, and are willing to pay for it.
Inquisition doesn't hit Karn, Duress doesn't hit creatures, yet Thoughtseize hits everything :P I do agree that it's silly that they're all the sameish but T Seize is just WAY better than Inquisition and Inquistion is WAY better than Duress.
Also, Heros Downfall is just good. It removes threats period. Sure you can play {Doom Blade} but what if they play monoblack, you can play {Ultimate Price} but what if they are about to monstrous a {Fleecemane Lion}, you can also play {Devour Flesh} but what if they have other creatures out? Having said that I run 2x Downfall and 2x Dev. Flesh bc sometimes the 2 mana vs. 3 is relevant!
Well put. I would also add in most games the player that has the most options usually wins. Downfall can remove creatures, walkers, and even things that only become creatures when the opponent wants them to. {Thoughtseize} gives you a huge range of options and severely limits their options now that they are both down a card and only have one unkown card in there hand (after draw step). The counter argument is fast aggro decks but think about it, in the short amount of turns it takes for an aggro deck to win who had more options during those turns?
This seems like a decent topic to put in discussion now that it is discussing other formats. Ill wait to see if the original poster agrees to move it.
I figured it would fit in standard because thats where I'm seeing {Hero's Downfall} being played the most. I didn't quite understand what made it so good. So its staying in this section
True, but this board is dedicated to decks and deck advice. The Magic Discussion board is where this belongs :)