Ok, so let's pretend I am attacking with {Lotleth Troll} and am running into a {Sedge Scorpion}. Before damage I pay to regen the troll, does the troll actually deal damage to kill the scorpion? Basically is damage dealt or is the troll immediately removed from combat?
Assuming neither gets first strike, all combat damage is dealt simultaneously. {Sedge Scorpion} dies, and {Lotleth Troll} regenerates.
Creatures with deathtouch must actually deal damage for deathtouch to matter.
And paying the cost to regen something doesn't immediately trigger the effects of regeneration. Paying the cost sets up a replacement effect that replaces the next instance of the creature dying. It's when the creature would actually die (e.g. taking damage from a deathtouch creature) that it gets removed from combat, etc.
Also regeneration doesnt happen until the creature would otherwise die. It is a replacement effect.
Quote from: Kaleo42 on January 06, 2014, 03:55:02 PM
Also regeneration doesnt happen until the creature would otherwise die. It is a replacement effect.
Can you confirm (as I am having a discussion with a co-worker) that damage would in fact be dealt to and by the troll? Then at the point that it is going to die, regen takes over.
614.8. (http://imtgapp.com/forum/index.php?action=imtg;area=rule;number=614.8.): Regeneration is a destruction-replacement effect. The word "instead" doesn't appear on the card but is implicit in the definition of regeneration. "Regenerate [permanent]" means "The next time [permanent] would be destroyed this turn, instead remove all damage marked on it and tap it. If it's an attacking or blocking creature, remove it from combat." Abilities that trigger from damage being dealt still trigger even if the permanent regenerates. See rule 701.12.
Quote from: Kaleo42 on January 06, 2014, 04:35:56 PM
614.8. (http://imtgapp.com/forum/index.php?action=imtg;area=rule;number=614.8.): Regeneration is a destruction-replacement effect. The word "instead" doesn't appear on the card but is implicit in the definition of regeneration. "Regenerate [permanent]" means "The next time [permanent] would be destroyed this turn, instead remove all damage marked on it and tap it. If it's an attacking or blocking creature, remove it from combat." Abilities that trigger from damage being dealt still trigger even if the permanent regenerates. See rule 701.12.
I hate to be a pain, but the ruling is being interpited differently. Can I be a pain and ask for you to say a simple combat damage is in fact dealt or damage is not dealt.
I hope this helps:
119.6. (http://imtgapp.com/forum/index.php?action=imtg;area=rule;number=119.6.): Damage marked on a creature remains until the cleanup step, even if that permanent stops being a creature. If the total damage marked on a creature is greater than or equal to its toughness, that creature has been dealt lethal damage and is destroyed as a state-based action (see rule 704). All damage marked on a permanent is removed when it regenerates (see rule 701.12, "Regenerate") and during the cleanup step (see rule 514.2).
The last line is the important one. How could damage be removed if damage is never dealt? Simple as that!
Thank you everyone, subject clear now. +1 for all parties involved.