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Magic (The Gathering) => Rules => Topic started by: Vileo on December 21, 2013, 04:08:40 AM

Title: Fanatic of Mogic ETB?
Post by: Vileo on December 21, 2013, 04:08:40 AM
So if my friend has a {Fanatic of Mogis}, the ETB trigger is on the stack. If I kill it in response, does it still deal damage? Since Fanatic says that it deals the damage.
Title: Re: Fanatic of Mogic ETB?
Post by: Jlamb5 on December 21, 2013, 04:10:47 AM
I'm almost positive that it will still deal damage, however, it will not include devotion of the red symbols provided by {fanatic of mogis} itself.
Title: Re: Fanatic of Mogic ETB?
Post by: Keyeto on December 21, 2013, 04:52:13 AM
It will still deal the damage. If you don't prevent it from entering the battlefield, it's ETB trigger still goes off. Killing it doesn't stop it from hitting the field, so it won't stop the damage.
Title: Re: Fanatic of Mogic ETB?
Post by: Anoobass on December 21, 2013, 05:04:48 AM
Quote from: Keyeto on December 21, 2013, 04:52:13 AM
It will still deal the damage. If you don't prevent it from entering the battlefield, it's ETB trigger still goes off. Killing it doesn't stop it from hitting the field, so it won't stop the damage.

...unless after you kill it his devo is 0 correct?
Title: Re: Fanatic of Mogic ETB?
Post by: Keyeto on December 21, 2013, 07:59:37 AM
Quote from: Anoobass on December 21, 2013, 05:04:48 AM
Quote from: Keyeto on December 21, 2013, 04:52:13 AM
It will still deal the damage. If you don't prevent it from entering the battlefield, it's ETB trigger still goes off. Killing it doesn't stop it from hitting the field, so it won't stop the damage.

...unless after you kill it his devo is 0 correct?
Correct. I was assuming that it wasn't the only red permanent on his field, as otherwise it may have seemed like the removal prevented the damage, and not the lack of devotion.
Title: Re: Fanatic of Mogic ETB?
Post by: Vileo on December 21, 2013, 08:44:23 PM
Thanks guys. Still don't understand how it deals damage from the grave, but if that's how it works, then oh well.
Title: Re: Fanatic of Mogic ETB?
Post by: fj76ts4 on December 21, 2013, 08:51:26 PM
Someone else used this analogy a while ago, credit goes whoever made it, but it's kinda like this: If I shoot an arrow at you, and I get killed, the arrow doesn't just magically remove itself from existence, it can still kill someone. Same with this- the fanatic dies, but the damage is still dealt.
Title: Re: Fanatic of Mogic ETB?
Post by: Giggle the Draco Genius on December 22, 2013, 02:02:31 AM
May I present you all with the arrow still kills you ruling

112.7a (http://imtgapp.com/forum/index.php?action=imtg;area=rule;number=112.7a): Once activated or triggered, an ability exists on the stack independently of its source. Destruction or removal of the source after that time won't affect the ability. Note that some abilities cause a source to do something (for example, "Prodigal Pyromancer deals 1 damage to target creature or player") rather than the ability doing anything directly. In these cases, any activated or triggered ability that references information about the source because the effect needs to be divided checks that information when the ability is put onto the stack. Otherwise, it will check that information when it resolves. In both instances, if the source is no longer in the zone it's expected to be in at that time, its last known information is used. The source can still perform the action even though it no longer exists.
Title: Re: Fanatic of Mogic ETB?
Post by: Vileo on December 22, 2013, 04:14:32 AM
Quote from: Giggleflat on December 22, 2013, 02:02:31 AM
May I present you all with the arrow still kills you ruling

112.7a (http://imtgapp.com/forum/index.php?action=imtg;area=rule;number=112.7a): Once activated or triggered, an ability exists on the stack independently of its source. Destruction or removal of the source after that time won't affect the ability. Note that some abilities cause a source to do something (for example, "Prodigal Pyromancer deals 1 damage to target creature or player") rather than the ability doing anything directly. In these cases, any activated or triggered ability that references information about the source because the effect needs to be divided checks that information when the ability is put onto the stack. Otherwise, it will check that information when it resolves. In both instances, if the source is no longer in the zone it's expected to be in at that time, its last known information is used. The source can still perform the action even though it no longer exists.
Perfect. Thanks. I'm not happy about it, but thanks lol.
Title: Re: Fanatic of Mogic ETB?
Post by: Destore117 on December 22, 2013, 05:47:55 AM
Quote from: fj76ts4 on December 21, 2013, 08:51:26 PM
Someone else used this analogy a while ago, credit goes whoever made it, but it's kinda like this: If I shoot an arrow at you, and I get killed, the arrow doesn't just magically remove itself from existence, it can still kill someone.
I believe it was Coffee Vampire

Another good example is if I were to attack with say a {treasury thrull} I could still return the card to my hand if they used a card like {divine verdict} on my attack.

The "when thrull attacks" ability hits the stack.
Verdict goes on top of it.
Thrull dies from verdict
I still get an artifact creature enchantment card from thrull's resolved ability even though he died.
Title: Re: Fanatic of Mogic ETB?
Post by: Anoobass on December 22, 2013, 11:38:16 AM
You declare an attacker and his ability goes on the stack, you pass priority and he casts divine verdict.  You pass priority again. Verdict resolves, ability resolves.  You get your card back :)
Title: Re: Fanatic of Mogic ETB?
Post by: Rambiant on December 23, 2013, 01:36:10 AM
Incorrect anoobas. You must pick a target when the trigger goes onto the stack. Therefor you can't return treasury thrull with his own tigger. Sorry :-/
Title: Re: Fanatic of Mogic ETB?
Post by: Anoobass on December 23, 2013, 10:57:44 AM
Sorry, I wasn't trying to say you could.  Just playing out the stack and resolve.