4 {Narcomoeba}
4 {Ichorid}
4 {Street Wraith}
4 {Phantasmagorian}
4 {Golgari Thug}
1 {Flayer of the Hatebound}
4 {Nether Shadow}
4 {Balustrade Spy}
4 {Golgari Grave-Troll}
4 {Stinkweed Imp}
4 {Chancellor of the Annex}
1 {grieslbrand}
1 {sphinx of the steel wind}
1 {aroma, angel of wrath}
44 creatures
4 {Gitaxian Probe}
4 {Dread Return}
4 {Cabal Therapy}
4 {Bridge from Below}
15 other spells
Sideboard
4 {Mindbreak Trap}
2 {Sickening Shoal}
4 {Contagion}
1 {Leyline of Sanctity}
4 {Faerie Macabre}
15 sideboard cards
Notes:
Go second. Draw, discard a big dredge guy. Next turn, dredge out the wazoo, and flashback that one card to bring back your {golgari grave troll} as a 20/20+
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I would also drop the spy's for {Putrid Imp}. In mana less dredge decks, it's easy fodder for {Ichorid}. Also, if you're able to build a {b} you can play it and discard your hand easily as well.
Quote from: Ertai on December 10, 2013, 11:55:43 PM
I would drop the probes and add {Breakthrough} which is the easiest way to dredge tons and discard your hand.
That would require mana.
The Spy lets you mill yourself (a la Oops, all spells), and you can win the same turn.
Only change I would make would be to try and add 4th {Cabal Therapy}, just to have another sac outlet. Not sure what I would cut though, maybe a shambling shell or a spy. {Griselbrand} and Iona are juicy dread targets, but you don't really need them with the spy.
Some lists run {Leyline of the Void} in the sideboard for the mirror, but if your meta doesn't have any other dredge/oops all spells players, it probably isn't needed.
Ah quite true.
In the most recent ones (from eternal weekend and European legacy tournaments they've been dropping one shambling shell for a griselbrand
Quote from: Taysby on December 11, 2013, 12:40:40 PM
Update
I really don't like {gitaxian probe} because it can get countered and then I can't discard. Is it worth taking out?
Who counters probe in legacy???
You should be using it to dredge...not to cycle...the deck is pointless without 8 free draw spells...and...you shouldn't be using it in a case where you need to discard
You only want reanimate balustrade, troll or flayer...cause you just win...why play something that doesn't let you win?
Iona is great, however after playtesting myself, Elesh Norn is a bad idea.
I would only reanimate him if it's a last resort, as you do not want to lose you {Bridge from Below}.
Quote from: Taysby on December 11, 2013, 11:21:45 PM
I checked out the top 8 deck lists for a very recent tournament and 97% of the creatures had toughness 2 or less. The only exception really was {tarmogoyf}, so it would be a field wipe! and make my creatures big.
Right. Like I said. Good back up. But the point is to have {Bridge from Below} in your graveyard for it to work. And if their creatures die, your bridge is exiled.
Bridge is a big win con by having overwhelming numbers and attack opponents when you have enough. Or to use the tokens as sacs for {Dread Return}.
I have 2 I put in my dredge sideboard, however I rarely use them.
I put Iona in most of the time. As well as {Shatter} and the like.
I typically play Iona to fight against counters. But more or less, it depends on the situation.
when you reanimate spy you win though..so it's worth waiting..the other guys are not "win now" cards...and because you have 4 bridges, when you play spy..you can sac with therapy..you get 4 zombies to continue reanimting...using others aside from 1 griselbrand (because he lets you keep comboing) would be a bad idea...
{Flayer of the Hatebound} is a win that turn guy. If you dredge him turn one, it's very possible to bring him out that turn or the next and win. Bring him out, 4 damage, flashback {Cabal Ritual} sacking him,5 damage, next turn bring ichorids out, 3 time X however many you have damage. Then sac ichorids for {Dread Return} to bring out {Golgari Grave Troll} good game.
All very possible.
Quote from: Taysby on January 10, 2014, 05:10:01 PM
Is there any other way to get my whole deck into my graveyard? I thought of {leveler}, but that's exile...
Yes. Put land in it.
so forgive me because im not a legacy or dredge player but i dont understand how this deck works other than {flayer of the hatebound}. so if you {balustrade spy} yourself to mill yourself then what happens. u can dredge to eternity as long as your graveyard has dredge cards in it? meaning, if you have no cards in library can you dredge? even if you flashback {cabal therapy} to bring out {golgari-grave troll}, he doesn't have haste or anything right? so would you lose the next time you are expected to draw?
Quote from: Taysby on January 11, 2014, 02:44:10 PM
Quote from: particle on January 11, 2014, 01:31:05 PM
so forgive me because im not a legacy or dredge player but i dont understand how this deck works other than {flayer of the hatebound}. so if you {balustrade spy} yourself to mill yourself then what happens. u can dredge to eternity as long as your graveyard has dredge cards in it? meaning, if you have no cards in library can you dredge? even if you flashback {cabal therapy} to bring out {golgari-grave troll}, he doesn't have haste or anything right? so would you lose the next time you are expected to draw?
You get your graveyard insanely huge, then {dread return} {flayer of the hate bound} for 5 damage, then {dread return} {golgari grave troll} for a ton of damage. {aroma! angel of wrath} {grieslbrand} are backups if I don't have any of my other dudes.
Actually. An easier way (and the first way) is {Dread Return} {Flayer of the Hatebound} for FOUR damage, {Cabal Therepy} sacing {Flayer of the Hatebound} for 5 damage. Then {Dread Return} sacing zombies for {Golgari grave troll}. Win. No middle crap.
Quote from: Taysby on January 12, 2014, 01:41:32 PM
But your graveyard needs to be big for that to happen. But the plan is to get flayer or, then the troll out.
When should I sideboard what? I tend to not do any sideboarding with my decks...
Good question. I had a hard time sideboarding when I first started playing dredge heavy. I tend to keep Iona and Elesh Norn in my sideboard as my big guys as well as {Shatter} and the like for Artifact hate. I'll play Iona for Counters and Creature destruction. I'll play Elesh Norn for Aggro heavy decks. If I can get them out early it works okay. At least with Iona. I don't like bringing Elesh Norn out unless I'm overwhelmed or to board whipe. Simply because I hardly attack.
so my question was how does this deck win without {flayer of the hatebound}. i understand how flayer does damage, but if u cant get him out are there alternate win cons? or just direct damage from flayer?
Quote from: Taysby on January 12, 2014, 06:21:23 PM
Quote from: particle on January 12, 2014, 06:10:40 PM
so my question was how does this deck win without {flayer of the hatebound}. i understand how flayer does damage, but if u cant get him out are there alternate win cons? or just direct damage from flayer?
That's what the big dudes like big griz are for.
so if they {surgical extraction} {flayer of the hatebound} and youve milled your whole deck how will big griz win? he doesnt have haste and by the time he could attack you would have drawn an empty library.
I've yet to see a {Surgical extraction} played. Lol.
I would laugh at someone who used it.
You could run a {Flame-Kin Zealot} as a backup win-con that also wins through {Leyline of Sanctity}
It is fairly big but it's not tier.
I'm still trying to remember when I've seen a surgical extraction. It is a good card and can be used. But there really is no deck to splash black in just in case their life is low.
How do you guys win through a karakas and a sword to plowshares?
Quote from: Taysby on January 13, 2014, 11:50:12 PM
{golgari grave troll} is non legendary. I kill them with it and my {flayer of the hate bound}
Funny story, I got enough of my cards to make it a 60 card deck, so I got excited and play tested it twice. Both times, I had 20+ cards in the graveyard! but no win con. I was so confused. Then I realized that I didn't have my {dread return}s. Fail.
20+ isn't nearly enough. If you can get all but maybe 4-6 cards in your deck. You win. Haha
I'm a DnT player and I'm all for ppl playing dredge!
Ps ... What's your plan for a turn 2 Thalia?
Quote from: Taysby on January 14, 2014, 12:00:47 PM
{contaigon} would work, wouldn't it? And who runs thalia in legacy?
Yes, and no one. Haha
Quote from: Ertai on January 14, 2014, 12:24:14 PM
Quote from: Taysby on January 14, 2014, 12:00:47 PM
{contaigon} would work, wouldn't it? And who runs thalia in legacy?
Yes, and no one. Haha
Lots of people run Thalia in legacy. DnT runs it main. Lots of other decks run it in sb.
Never seen it in tier.
Well for this decks sake I hope you don't .
Quote from: Taysby on January 14, 2014, 12:59:46 PM
I think i'll be mainboarding some other stuff, cause really, why would anyone keep a hand with one dredger which is "dredge 3". Contagion would probably be one of those things.
Did you say you were going to play LeD's?
Quote from: Ertai on January 14, 2014, 12:46:37 PM
Never seen it in tier.
DnT and Maverick are tier decks.
Maverick: http://www.mtgtop8.com/event?e=6340&d=236497
DnT top 8 at a recent event: http://www.mtgtop8.com/event?e=6254&d=235948
Okay online net decks are not relevant.
Local metas are relevant.
I had three dnt decks show up at Tuesday legacy last week.
Mana less dredge / dredge has been a no show for a couple months. It might something to do with deathrite shaman idk..,,
Quote from: Dstyle1 on January 14, 2014, 02:13:47 PM
I had three dnt decks show up at Tuesday legacy last week.
Mana less dredge / dredge has been a no show for a couple months. It might something to do with deathrite shaman idk..,,
Now that's the real nuiecence. It can be dealt with if you dredge good early, but still annoying.
Quote from: Ertai on January 14, 2014, 02:09:26 PM
Okay online net decks are not relevant.
Local metas are relevant.
Your local metas may be relevant to you but not to anyone else playing this deck (see dstyle's post above). Seeing what's happening on tournament scenes isn't "net decking". I chose those because they are current tournament results with those decks. Saying nobody plays it because you don't have it in your meta is not helpful.
If you have a deck that is straight dead to one card would it not be worth making a plan to combat that card? Especially when it's a card that appears in numerous "tier" decks?
Good thing I said "I've never see it" not "people don't play that".
Interesting how it's read, huh? :D
Quote from: Ertai on January 14, 2014, 03:24:27 PM
Good thing I said "I've never see it" not "people don't play that".
Interesting how it's read, huh? :D
You are exactly right. If this dominates your meta than bring it. But I have , no lie, seen this deck make 3 ppl quit magic. (They have yet to play a competitive game since).So there will be stumbling blocks. Good luck!
Quote from: Dstyle1 on January 14, 2014, 03:37:07 PM
Quote from: Ertai on January 14, 2014, 03:24:27 PM
Good thing I said "I've never see it" not "people don't play that".
Interesting how it's read, huh? :D
You are exactly right. If this dominates your meta than bring it. But I have , no lie, seen this deck make 3 ppl quit magic. (They have yet to play a competitive game since).So there will be stumbling blocks. Good luck!
You've seen Manaless dredge make 3 people quit?? Or DnT? Manaless dredge isn't that unfair. It can win out of nowhere but I don't think it's completely broken.
Quote from: Falcon182 on January 14, 2014, 04:29:11 PM
Quote from: Dstyle1 on January 14, 2014, 03:37:07 PM
Quote from: Ertai on January 14, 2014, 03:24:27 PM
Good thing I said "I've never see it" not "people don't play that".
Interesting how it's read, huh? :D
You are exactly right. If this dominates your meta than bring it. But I have , no lie, seen this deck make 3 ppl quit magic. (They have yet to play a competitive game since).So there will be stumbling blocks. Good luck!
You've seen Manaless dredge make 3 people quit?? Or DnT? Manaless dredge isn't that unfair. It can win out of nowhere but I don't think it's completely broken.
I was playing dnt and the other players were on mana less dredge.
Quote from: Dstyle1 on January 14, 2014, 08:29:17 PM
Quote from: Falcon182 on January 14, 2014, 04:29:11 PM
Quote from: Dstyle1 on January 14, 2014, 03:37:07 PM
Quote from: Ertai on January 14, 2014, 03:24:27 PM
Good thing I said "I've never see it" not "people don't play that".
Interesting how it's read, huh? :D
You are exactly right. If this dominates your meta than bring it. But I have , no lie, seen this deck make 3 ppl quit magic. (They have yet to play a competitive game since).So there will be stumbling blocks. Good luck!
You've seen Manaless dredge make 3 people quit?? Or DnT? Manaless dredge isn't that unfair. It can win out of nowhere but I don't think it's completely broken.
I was playing dnt and the other players were on mana less dredge.
Yeah totally. Haha. The tourney I played recently I had a sb {grafdigger's cage} that I had in my opening hand on the play. Turn 1 island, grafdigger's cage, go. Manaless dredge player turn 1, scoop. Haha.
Death n Taxes
I bumped my current declist in the. "Other" category .
This is why I suggest playing with mana.
Quote from: Taysby on January 15, 2014, 05:17:23 PM
I'm mainly playing Manaless because I can afford it. My long term plan is to convert it to normal dredge. Them {lions eye diamond}s are just so expensive...
Well I have {City of Brass} for trade if you're interested.
How about the Liquid Crystal Display's? They're not anywhere near as good, but they're super cheap.
I like Light Emitting Diodes with the 240HZ.
WUT
Quote from: Taysby on January 30, 2014, 11:27:57 PM
From what I've seen of my meta so far (2 people. 1 is playing true name stone blade and 1 is either running normal dredge or goblin char belcher) 50% of my meta is combo. Should I mainboard my {mind break trap}s and {leyline of sanctity}s?
the problem I have with main decking cards like that insignia draw them in your opener against the wrong deck they're dead cards. You would be better off with 4 maindeck {cabal therapy} to punish people than using cards that could very often be dead.