If I exile my commander with {Food Chain} can I collect the mana from my commander going to exile, then send him back to the commander zone? Hopefully someone knows the answer to this puzzling edh question!
Yes you can have your commander go back to the command zone instead of exiling it. Food chain still works and you get the mana.
Quote from: Coffee Vampire on November 18, 2013, 09:21:17 PM
Yes you can have your commander go back to the command zone instead of exiling it. Food chain still works and you get the mana.
I thought if you put it back in the command zone it's a replacement effect and never hits the exile zone? And if that's the case technically the card isnt removed to get the mana? I found this on another forum
Going to the command zone is a replacement effect, so your commander will never actually hit the graveyard or the exile zone, and won't trigger "on exile" or "on graveyard" triggers. E.g. if you are playing Kiega as your commander, you don't actually get to steal a creature if you put Keiga in the command zone when it dies.
Or is food chain more of a legal target scenario
I believe this would work the same as like fling. It requires additional cost of sacrifice which means to put a creature you control to the graveyard. But it doesn't care if it actually hits the yard if it was replaced by say {rest in peace}
Quote from: Giggleflat on November 19, 2013, 03:06:29 AM
I believe this would work the same as like fling. It requires additional cost of sacrifice which means to put a creature you control to the graveyard. But it doesn't care if it actually hits the yard if it was replaced by say {rest in peace}
{Fling} has nothing to do with the graveyard, you can sacrifice something and it not go to the graveyard like you mentioned above. The difference is you are not replacing the sacrifice effect.
He is posing a completely different question.
I believe it would work because you are doing what the card says. You are exiling your commander to the card but you are then choosing to use the commander ruling to send it to the commander zone.
Food chain does not require the card enter a certain zone it just sends it on it's way to that zone. It's not like {helm of obedience} that waits for the call from the intended zone to know it got there safely.
This is what I was referring too:
614.6. If an event is replaced, it never happens. A modified event occurs instead, which may in turn trigger abilities. Note that the modified event may contain instructions that can't be carried out, in which case the impossible instruction is simply ignored.
614.7. If a replacement effect would replace an event, but that event never happens, the replacement effect simply doesn't do anything.
Commander Rule
If a Commander would be put into a graveyard or exile from anywhere, its owner may choose to move it to the command zone instead. Details
This is a replacement effect; the creature never goes to the graveyard and will not trigger such abilities.
Commanders will move to the library or hand as normal; only transitions to Exile or the Graveyard may be replaced.
{Food Chain} does not combo with a commander such as {Derevi, Empyrial Tactician} to create an infinite loop, at least not only with these two pieces.
Quote from: Stoneco1d869 on November 19, 2013, 07:01:17 PM
{Food Chain} does not combo with a commander such as {Derevi, Empyrial Tactician} to create an infinite loop, at least not only with these two pieces.
Exile to add {G}{W}{U} + {1} to your mana pool. Since he was sent to exile you may place him in the command zone and then pay {1}{G}{W}{U} to put him back into play using his ability.
As for the origional question it would have i be worded as "Exile a creature you control: when a creature is PUT INTO exile this way add mana equal to...etc."
That put into statement would force a check to see if it made it there. There is no form of check in the food chain ability to confirm the card went anywhere. You performed and action of sending a creature to exile and modified that action by creating a different destination. You still met the cost of the ability by sending it toward exile.
So you are saying it creates an infinite loop?
Btw according to commander rules the decision to move it to the command zone happens prior to it leaving the battlefield.
**If not can I get an explanation cause the rule seems pretty plain to me.**
Quote from: Stoneco1d869 on November 19, 2013, 06:59:45 PM
This is what I was referring too:
614.6. If an event is replaced, it never happens. A modified event occurs instead, which may in turn trigger abilities. Note that the modified event may contain instructions that can't be carried out, in which case the impossible instruction is simply ignored.
614.7. If a replacement effect would replace an event, but that event never happens, the replacement effect simply doesn't do anything.
Commander Rule
If a Commander would be put into a graveyard or exile from anywhere, its owner may choose to move it to the command zone instead. Details
This is a replacement effect; the creature never goes to the graveyard and will not trigger such abilities.
Commanders will move to the library or hand as normal; only transitions to Exile or the Graveyard may be replaced.
I think we are thinking the same, the old exile errata is removed. The card is never removed unless you allow your commander to be exiled which you can do. If you choose to not remove it, then food chain says you get the mana from the removed card so card not removed no mana. Or did i misread what you said and i stand alone with this though?
Quote from: Kaleo42 on November 19, 2013, 07:26:50 PM
Quote from: Stoneco1d869 on November 19, 2013, 07:01:17 PM
{Food Chain} does not combo with a commander such as {Derevi, Empyrial Tactician} to create an infinite loop, at least not only with these two pieces.
Exile to add {G}{W}{U} + {1} to your mana pool. Since he was sent to exile you may place him in the command zone and then pay {1}{G}{W}{U} to put him back into play using his ability.
As for the origional question it would have i be worded as "Exile a creature you control: when a creature is PUT INTO exile this way add mana equal to...etc."
That put into statement would force a check to see if it made it there. There is no form of check in the food chain ability to confirm the card went anywhere. You performed and action of sending a creature to exile and modified that action by creating a different destination. You still met the cost of the ability by sending it toward exile.
He never touches exile if you put him in command zone. Rules say one or the other. That's the replacement effect. He was never removed for the second part of the card
Quote from: Butch1977 on November 19, 2013, 07:32:52 PM
Quote from: Kaleo42 on November 19, 2013, 07:26:50 PM
Quote from: Stoneco1d869 on November 19, 2013, 07:01:17 PM
{Food Chain} does not combo with a commander such as {Derevi, Empyrial Tactician} to create an infinite loop, at least not only with these two pieces.
Exile to add {G}{W}{U} + {1} to your mana pool. Since he was sent to exile you may place him in the command zone and then pay {1}{G}{W}{U} to put him back into play using his ability.
As for the origional question it would have i be worded as "Exile a creature you control: when a creature is PUT INTO exile this way add mana equal to...etc."
That put into statement would force a check to see if it made it there. There is no form of check in the food chain ability to confirm the card went anywhere. You performed and action of sending a creature to exile and modified that action by creating a different destination. You still met the cost of the ability by sending it toward exile.
He never touches exile if you put him in command zone. Rules say one or the other. That's the replacement effect
That is how I am reading the rules.
Also food chain is any "one color" to your mana pool.
I have to agree with
Stoneco1d869 second sentence in food chains says you get the mana from the removed creature. If you choose not to remove your commander then no mana because he was never removed to begin with. If you exile then yes. I think his statement of all rules proves his case.
I approached it from the emblem rules in regular play. Command zone is an active zone. Anything in it is never removed.
Quote from: Anoobass on November 19, 2013, 07:35:37 PM
Also food chain is any "one color" to your mana pool.
Add one color each time then and rotate through the all three colors. It requires a little more mana to start but it does work.
I see where you are coming from but youre trying to draw a connection thqt is not related to this situation. By your logic here sacrificing a creature to {cartel aristocrat} with {rest in peace} in play would not give it protection from anything because the sacrificed creature did not go to the intended zone. As for using the reference material to determine the mana added if it can not be found in the intended zone then use it's last known existence as reference material.
Taken from {disciple of griselbrand} which is an even better example than {cartel aristocrat}.
Rulings
9/22/2011 The amount of life you gain is equal to the toughness of the creature as it last existed on the battlefield, not its toughness in the graveyard.
Quote from: Kaleo42 on November 19, 2013, 09:04:49 PM
Quote from: Anoobass on November 19, 2013, 07:35:37 PM
Also food chain is any "one color" to your mana pool.
Add one color each time then and rotate through the all three colors. It requires a little more mana to start but it does work.
I see where you are coming from but youre trying to draw a connection thqt is not related to this situation. By your logic here sacrificing a creature to {cartel aristocrat} with {rest in peace} in play would not give it protection from anything because the sacrificed creature did not go to the intended zone. As for using the reference material to determine the mana added if it can not be found in the intended zone then use it's last known existence as reference material.
Taken from {disciple of griselbrand} which is an even better example than {cartel aristocrat}.
Rulings
9/22/2011 The amount of life you gain is equal to the toughness of the creature as it last existed on the battlefield, not its toughness in the graveyard.
That one just really confused me. The quote you started with meant the X mana in {food chain} wording. You get x plus one mana of your color of choosing. So you pick blue, u get converted mana cost plus one of blue.
Recant blue argument. After reading gilded lotus. Any combination of mana what so ever is possible within commander rule of colorless outside identity rule. Still holding strong on replacement rule though. Card never removed from play, no mana produced. I think stonecold proved with rules quote.
Quote from: Stoneco1d869 on November 19, 2013, 06:59:45 PM
This is what I was referring too:
614.6. If an event is replaced, it never happens. A modified event occurs instead, which may in turn trigger abilities. Note that the modified event may contain instructions that can't be carried out, in which case the impossible instruction is simply ignored.
614.7. If a replacement effect would replace an event, but that event never happens, the replacement effect simply doesn't do anything.
Commander Rule
If a Commander would be put into a graveyard or exile from anywhere, its owner may choose to move it to the command zone instead. Details
This is a replacement effect; the creature never goes to the graveyard and will not trigger such abilities.
Commanders will move to the library or hand as normal; only transitions to Exile or the Graveyard may be replaced.
The purpose of these rulings is to explain that effects such as {Child of Alara} can not be abused by simply putting it into the command zone. Should you choose to send it to the command zone do to a effect that says sacrifice, exile, or destroy you are not removing the origional effect from existance. {Path to Exile} on a commander sent to the command zone will still cause a land search. Sacrificing a creature with {rest in peace} in play does not cancel the resulting effect from the sacrifice.
As for that other quote I started by explaining that you can make a loop by exiling for blue, replaying and exiling for white, then replaying and exiling for green at which point you have enough of all three colors to continue doing this.
Quote from: Kaleo42 on November 20, 2013, 12:11:52 AM
Quote from: Stoneco1d869 on November 19, 2013, 06:59:45 PM
This is what I was referring too:
614.6. If an event is replaced, it never happens. A modified event occurs instead, which may in turn trigger abilities. Note that the modified event may contain instructions that can't be carried out, in which case the impossible instruction is simply ignored.
614.7. If a replacement effect would replace an event, but that event never happens, the replacement effect simply doesn't do anything.
Commander Rule
If a Commander would be put into a graveyard or exile from anywhere, its owner may choose to move it to the command zone instead. Details
This is a replacement effect; the creature never goes to the graveyard and will not trigger such abilities.
Commanders will move to the library or hand as normal; only transitions to Exile or the Graveyard may be replaced.
The purpose of these rulings is to explain that effects such as {Child of Alara} can not be abused by simply putting it into the command zone. Should you choose to send it to the command zone do to a effect that says sacrifice, exile, or destroy you are not removing the origional effect from existance. {Path to Exile} on a commander sent to the command zone will still cause a land search. Sacrificing a creature with {rest in peace} in play does not cancel the resulting effect from the sacrifice.
As for that other quote I started by explaining that you can make a loop by exiling for blue, replaying and exiling for white, then replaying and exiling for green at which point you have enough of all three colors to continue doing this.
Sorry to bump this, but everyone is saying different things, which confused me as to the ruling on what the card could do! Can we get a mod, or someone to finalize the ruling on the card?😊 thanks
Quote from: Jackson get out on December 09, 2013, 11:47:59 AM
Quote from: Kaleo42 on November 20, 2013, 12:11:52 AM
Quote from: Stoneco1d869 on November 19, 2013, 06:59:45 PM
This is what I was referring too:
614.6. If an event is replaced, it never happens. A modified event occurs instead, which may in turn trigger abilities. Note that the modified event may contain instructions that can't be carried out, in which case the impossible instruction is simply ignored.
614.7. If a replacement effect would replace an event, but that event never happens, the replacement effect simply doesn't do anything.
Commander Rule
If a Commander would be put into a graveyard or exile from anywhere, its owner may choose to move it to the command zone instead. Details
This is a replacement effect; the creature never goes to the graveyard and will not trigger such abilities.
Commanders will move to the library or hand as normal; only transitions to Exile or the Graveyard may be replaced.
The purpose of these rulings is to explain that effects such as {Child of Alara} can not be abused by simply putting it into the command zone. Should you choose to send it to the command zone do to a effect that says sacrifice, exile, or destroy you are not removing the origional effect from existance. {Path to Exile} on a commander sent to the command zone will still cause a land search. Sacrificing a creature with {rest in peace} in play does not cancel the resulting effect from the sacrifice.
As for that other quote I started by explaining that you can make a loop by exiling for blue, replaying and exiling for white, then replaying and exiling for green at which point you have enough of all three colors to continue doing this.
Sorry to bump this, but everyone is saying different things, which confused me as to the ruling on what the card could do! Can we get a mod, or someone to finalize the ruling on the card?😊 thanks
Take the advice from Kaleo. He has more than experience with rules than me. Him and Gorzo are the mods that resolves rulings questions. I take these opputunities to get a better understanding from them
Quote from: Kaleo42 on November 19, 2013, 07:26:50 PM
Quote from: Stoneco1d869 on November 19, 2013, 07:01:17 PM
{Food Chain} does not combo with a commander such as {Derevi, Empyrial Tactician} to create an infinite loop, at least not only with these two pieces.
Exile to add {G}{W}{U} + {1} to your mana pool. Since he was sent to exile you may place him in the command zone and then pay {1}{G}{W}{U} to put him back into play using his ability.
As for the origional question it would have i be worded as "Exile a creature you control: when a creature is PUT INTO exile this way add mana equal to...etc."
That put into statement would force a check to see if it made it there. There is no form of check in the food chain ability to confirm the card went anywhere. You performed and action of sending a creature to exile and modified that action by creating a different destination. You still met the cost of the ability by sending it toward exile.
Necro of the year