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Knight Of The Reliquary TRON 60 cards, 3 sideboard 4 {Urza's Tower} 4 {Temple Garden} 4 {Urza's Power Plant} 2 {Academy Ruins} 4 {Urza's Mine} 4 {forest} 22 lands 2 {Emrakul, the Aeons Torn} 2 {Wurmcoil Engine} 4 {Knight of the Reliquary} 2 {Platinum Angel} 10 creatures 4 {Karn Liberated} 4 {Expedition Map} 4 {Ancient Stirrings} 4 {Chromatic Star} 4 {Relic of Progenitus} 2 {All Is Dust} 2 {oblivion stone} 4 {Sylvan Scrying} 28 other spells Sideboard 3 {Nature's Claim} 2 {grafdigger's cage} 2 {oblivion stone} 2 {all is dust} 2 {path to exile} 9 sideboard cards

You generally only need 1 {Emrakul} or other eldrazi MB because you can tutor them with {Eye of Ugin} or {Ancient Stirrings}. {Budoka Gardener} is probably excess as well. It'll only be useful by T3 and ideally you have a full tron by then and are casting {Karn Liberated} or {Wurmcoil Engine}

I feel like the {Knight of the Reliquary} won't accomplish very much here since you won't have any lands in the GY other than ones an opponent puts there (or you could sac your own I guess). Also the {Academy Ruins} isn't necessary unless you want to run the {Mindslaver} lock combo, imo.

{spaceshift} might work well here

The handy thing about {Oblivion Stone} is that you can "pay" its cost in installments instead of having to tap out 7 mana all at once to remove what's currently on the board. It's also more versatile than {All is Dust} because it hits artifacts (and {Karn Liberated} in the mirror match)

Quote from: Taysby on November 07, 2013, 03:40:55 PM
I'm not saying  no, I'm just trying to analyze the pros and cons.

{all is dust} gets rid of indestructible things and is faster
{oblivion stone} takes at least one turn to pull off! and can suffer to artifact destruction.

Is it really woth the additional cons just to have a better card for 1 deck?

Maby I should just run 2 of each!

in my opinion {all is dust} is better

Quote from: Taysby on November 07, 2013, 03:57:15 PM
I changed it to two of each.  I'll test my meta and see which one is more useful, then run 4 of it.  Right now, I really like that {all is dust} can decimate most of my opponents stuff while leavin mine alone.

Except O-Stone is never dead, while {All is Dust} totally whiffs against three of the most powerful decks of the format: affinity, scapeshift, and tron. {All is Dust} is also high enough in mana cost that if you get hit by {remand}, which you will against merfolk, splinter twin, and uwr tempo, you've missed a turn, while you can usually just recast the stone.

I think you'll need some removal in the sideboard against really creature-based decks. {Path to Exile} is pretty much necessary against melira-pod if you're not running pyroclasm.

You could always run both, but {Path to Exile} is a card useful in almost every matchup.

Dumb Question: what is tron

Quote from: DimirOverlord1300 on November 18, 2013, 08:22:34 PM
Dumb Question: what is tron

Not dumb at all :)

it's the name for decks which try to get out {urza's Mine} + {Urza's tower} + {Urza's power plant} ASAP so they can drop bombs like Karn

Careful though, it could also refer to voltron style decks which some people simply call tron, but that's less common than this meaning of "tron".

Quote from: Lyriczulu on November 18, 2013, 11:26:51 PM
Careful though, it could also refer to voltron style decks which some people simply call tron, but that's less common than this meaning of "tron".

True, but usually not in modern, like you said.

Quote from: ConanEdo on November 19, 2013, 03:46:30 PM
The reason I question knight is that he is awkward as a land tutor. He's good as a beat stick that grows when you use Fetchlands, wastelands, etc. Tron only has a problem with superfast aggro. That's not going to be helped by a dude when you have to waste land tutors trying to get the mana to play or have him just sitting in your hand because you don't have the right mana combination.

This is pretty true. Usually tron is run as R/G so it can take advantage of {pyroclasm} & {firespout} against those matchups.

Actually, firespout does kill vexing devil, but I think you also hope to stick an early o-stone or all is dust after you wipe the board first.

Quote from: Taysby on November 25, 2013, 11:56:49 AM
is {gilded lotus} worth running?

Probably not, I mean the earliest you can play it is T3 with all three urza's lands and I think you'd much rather play {Karn Liberated} then or at least {Wurmcoil Engine}. What would you take out to play it?

You might be able to make it work, I just think that if that's your T3 or T4 play, you might be in trouble depending on the matchup.

Quote from: Taysby on November 25, 2013, 12:27:51 PM
I would probably take out {relic of progenitous} and if a deck runs lots of graveyard use, take out the {gilded lotus}s and put in the relics.  If I don't have a karn, it would help me pull out my big stuff.  I have no idea if it would be good or not.

{Gilded Lotus} is pretty useless since most of your good stuff should be out once you have tron anyway. {Relic of Progenitus} not only gets you through your deck, but allows you to punish any graveyard interaction, including anything melira-pod or living end plays, and {Snapcaster Mage}.

Quote from: Taysby on November 25, 2013, 02:05:10 PM
I was leaning towards not running it, but I thought it was worth discussing.  Thanks for your input.

No problem :)

boseiju + tooth&nail entwine + triskelavus + mikaeus the unhallowed = win

alternatively, it's very careful tron sideboarding :D

Quote from: fj76ts4 on November 29, 2013, 05:51:12 PM
alternatively, it's very careful tron sideboarding :D

I wouldn't call 3 black mana symbols tron sideboarding...

tooth and nail for it, don't cast it

Quote from: fj76ts4 on November 29, 2013, 08:24:33 PM
tooth and nail for it, don't cast it

Oh, duh

Still, how does the combo work? It just seems like a way of converting mana into damage

remove all the counters, it comes back with undying, remove all the counters again, repeat until opponent is dead.

Quote from: fj76ts4 on November 29, 2013, 11:11:22 PM
remove all the counters, it comes back with undying, remove all the counters again, repeat until opponent is dead.

{Triskelavus} makes 12 damage from {7}.

Did you mean {Triskelion}?

asdfgghhjklajfekalxsjdnrnsocr yes

You seem really adamant about not taking out {Knight of the Reliquary}: Why? It takes a lot of colored mana and you would always rather have a turn three Karn or {Wurmcoil Engine}.

While adding in {Gitaxian Probe} seems fine (like a different sort of egg in a way), diluting your deck further from its wincon by putting in {polymorph} just so you can replace the knights seems pointless. If the knights are bad enough that you'd want to splash blue just to trade them for something else, that's probably a sign you shouldn't run them.

Quote from: Taysby on November 30, 2013, 11:43:55 AM
I have a slightly different version that took 2nd at the legacy tourney.  My only legacy card was a {sensei's divining top}.  It only folded to some form of equipment/counter everything deck.

{Autumn's Veil} can help you against most counterspells, and {savage summoning} works for even better against countertop.

What exactly is a tron deck?

Tron is a mostly colorless deck that uses the Urzatron lands ({Urza's Tower}, {Urza's Mine}, and {Urza's Power Plant}) to generate ridiculous amounts of mana, optimally landing {Karn Liberated} or {Wurmcoil Engine} on turn 3 and closing up the game with {Emrakul, the Aeons Torn} in another few turns. The most popular types run either {g} (for {ancient stirrings} and {sylvan scrying}) splashing {r} (for {pyroclasm}), or just {u} for holding off the opponent until you drop a {Sundering Titan} or a wurmcoil with counterspell backup. 

Quote from: fj76ts4 on December 02, 2013, 11:02:10 PM
Tron is a mostly colorless deck that uses the Urzatron lands ({Urza's Tower}, {Urza's Mine}, and {Urza's Power Plant}) to generate ridiculous amounts of mana, optimally landing {Karn Liberated} or {Wurmcoil Engine} on turn 3 and closing up the game with {Emrakul, the Aeons Torn} in another few turns. The most popular types run either {g} (for {ancient stirrings} and {sylvan scrying}) splashing {r} (for {pyroclasm}), or just {u} for holding off the opponent until you drop a {Sundering Titan} or a wurmcoil with counterspell backup.

Thanks.

Quote from: Taysby on December 02, 2013, 10:33:03 PM
{knight of the reliquary} has helped me get to tron soo many times,  I don't have the {ancient stirring}s or {expedition map}s yet! but when I can turn a {temple garden} into an {urza's tower} that's a good thing. And most of the time he gets to be really scary. Is there any creature in modern that people want to get rid of?  It's just a way to get Emmy out turn 4.  I'd say that's pretty good.  At the least I tap knight for a land turn 4, and morph him into another knight isn't all that bad.  Because I can still tap him next turn.  And if he turns into a {platinum angel} or {wurmcoil engine} that is amazing.  If my opponent pulls out his one big thing too, I can use it on them to make it smaller.  I realize that doesn't work on small stuff like {dark confidant}, but on huge stuff! it'd be worth it.

I understand that Knoght acts as a backup {Ancient Stirrings}/{Expedition Map}/{Sylvan Scrying}, but it is a ton slower than any of those three. Once you get playsets of the three above, Knight becomes outclassed. When you play a {Knight of the Reliquary} third turn, most opponents will just take her right off the board and be happy that they have significantly delayed a karn to turn 5.

Generally I like to +4 him, +4 again exiling a wurmcoil or emrakul, and then ult him. T0 wurmcoils are usually pretty effective :D

Quote from: Taysby on December 03, 2013, 04:56:21 PM
Regardless of any of that, if I can {polymorph} him into one of my big things! that's great.  And if my opponents waste their removal on it, I would love that.  There's nothing worse than playing {karn liberated}, using his -3, and then have them hit him with a {lightning bolt}

{Polymorph}ing the knight to make up for the lost tempo by playing fewer tron-lands than you should in the first turn is usually worse than just casting a bomb. The field is rarely a problem on a turn three/four karn if you use {pyroclasm} beforehand.

haha all right. I'd suggest {prophetic prism} and {mindslaver} somewhere- you're already running ruins, why not?

I've been toying with the idea of a turn 3 {spine of ish sah} into a turn 4 {possessed portal} still have to playtest what to tak out because it is tight. Karn alwys feels better to cast than the spine, but the portal lock seems.. Powerful.

Awesome. Usually RG tron assembles tron for turn 3 karn with better means of dealing with things in earlier turns with both searching and scrying. They also have means of playing other cards without relying on eggs unless it is for sorceries or instants. They also don't waste so much room on unneeded cards for theory and rely on an unreliable beater that is weak in a format with BG and Jund.

This deck is mediocre compared to their deck. I am going off the same information as you, too. I have seen and played against tron decks. I also played them. I might just sleeve this up to get horrible results to prove something to you.

Quote from: Taysby on December 31, 2013, 12:17:37 PM
The more I look at it, the more I hate my original build.  My recent build is much better.

Update the original then.

Question- How consistent is this? I see you've removed the maps and the stirrings- I guess the knights make up for the maps, but the stirrings really help by digging for pretty much all your wincons and protective creatures.

Also, I'd really suggest at least one eye of ugin and one ghost quarter- without the ghost quarter, sowing salt wrecks you.

Still want tournament results. I'll give mine on Friday. So far this deck has been actually fun only due to the weirdness of it. It is way too slow and so glass-cannon based though. It hasn't really done anything worthwhile that makes me want to play it over tron variants that so what this wants to do better.

Have you tried a Tezzeret Tron Artifact deck?