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Plus => Discussion => Topic started by: whitedrake on November 05, 2013, 08:22:05 PM

Title: Why Americans do not use PayPal?
Post by: whitedrake on November 05, 2013, 08:22:05 PM
Again got surprised today...
How so that so few americans are using PayPal for paying the stuff on the internet? Why they prefer to pay directly with bank card?

I cannot understand this, why to choose less secured way of payment over safe way with benefits for buyers?
Title: Re: Why Americans do not use PayPal?
Post by: #noided on November 05, 2013, 08:30:35 PM
Paypal? Safe?

This is a joke, yes?
Title: Re: Why Americans do not use PayPal?
Post by: whitedrake on November 05, 2013, 08:34:22 PM
Why it would not be safe...? Why it would not be safer than for example to fill out the information from ur card directly to some form on the internet to pay...

I use paypal for 8 years and I have never had problems...;)
And on top of that when someone tried to scam me then I can request the refund in 45 days after the payment.
Title: Re: Why Americans do not use PayPal?
Post by: #noided on November 05, 2013, 08:37:34 PM
Paypal is only as secure as the user. As is paying by debit/CC.

Last year, Anonymous leaked the information to paypal accounts. Just because you haven't experienced problems doesn't mean they don't exist.
Title: Re: Why Americans do not use PayPal?
Post by: whitedrake on November 05, 2013, 08:42:40 PM
Oh I agree, but same happens with credit cards themselves, and you do not need to link your card to the paypal, you can charge it by your account without even connecting your bank account to the paypal account.
And anyway with paypal you can refund if there would be transfer you have not done...

I would be more worried by paying directly by card...

Of course no system is 100% secured but PayPal is way more safer in transactions then direct card payment.
Title: Re: Why Americans do not use PayPal?
Post by: Rass on November 05, 2013, 09:00:38 PM
CC are also protected from fraud.
Title: Re: Why Americans do not use PayPal?
Post by: MuggyWuggy on November 05, 2013, 09:37:10 PM
I got ripped off for an item I sold ala PayPal (Warcraft account)

Person Pays for account can verify all this info to make me feel secure.

I give them info

Transfer cash to bank

I get message saying - hey your payment was not a valid one. We're taking the money back -

Some kid ripped off some poor lady's info and was using it to pay for stuff.

I talk to PayPal explain what I lost and they say,"sorry can't do anything"

I can't goto blizzard as their policy is "we just ban the account"

I ask "can't even track person who scammed me and used your secure website to authorize a payment of $1000 from a persons bank account?" "Nope." Is their answer

They say I still owe em money! Screw that. I got my item taken and nothing is done for me? They can't even track persons IP???


PayPal was trying to yank $1000 from my account after that fiasco. Went to ATM and pulled that out immediately.

Not secure at all.

For such a big company, if they mess up, they expect someone else to pay for their mistakeS. Not very cool....oh and they completely monopolized eBay...


I use PayPal for eBay only and that bank account only has money in it to pay for things.

It's def not as safe as many think
Title: Re: Why Americans do not use PayPal?
Post by: whitedrake on November 05, 2013, 10:27:58 PM
Quote from: Muggywuggy on November 05, 2013, 09:37:10 PM
I got ripped off for an item I sold ala PayPal (Warcraft account)

Person Pays for account can verify all this info to make me feel secure.

I give them info

Transfer cash to bank

I get message saying - hey your payment was not a valid one. We're taking the money back -

Some kid ripped off some poor lady's info and was using it to pay for stuff.

I talk to PayPal explain what I lost and they say,"sorry can't do anything"

I can't goto blizzard as their policy is "we just ban the account"

I ask "can't even track person who scammed me and used your secure website to authorize a payment of $1000 from a persons bank account?" "Nope." Is their answer

They say I still owe em money! Screw that. I got my item taken and nothing is done for me? They can't even track persons IP???


PayPal was trying to yank $1000 from my account after that fiasco. Went to ATM and pulled that out immediately.

Not secure at all.

For such a big company, if they mess up, they expect someone else to pay for their mistakeS. Not very cool....oh and they completely monopolized eBay...


I use PayPal for eBay only and that bank account only has money in it to pay for things.

It's def not as safe as many think

I do not get what are you talking about...

If anyone is sending you money by paypal you are sending it from one pp acount to another. You cannot send money with paypal directly to anyones account...:o

Possibly you did not elaborate the right way and I am only not getting it right...

I use PP almost on daily basis, with transactions through whole europe and to US... And I have never experienced any problems. And anyway seller's and buyer's protection on PayPal does not cover trades of digital items. They warn people from using their system to selll and buy digital items...

I got scammed buy american seller on ebay recently, and only bcs of paypal I was able to force her to return me my money back. If not then as non-us citizen I would have hard times to force her to return me my money if I would pay by bank account or CC...
Title: Re: Why Americans do not use PayPal?
Post by: whitedrake on November 05, 2013, 10:30:24 PM
BTW: they do not monopolize ebay... Ebay decided to suggest their users to use PP as a prefered payment system, but you can pay in other way on ebay as well but simply There is a reason why PayPal is prefered on Ebay....
Title: Re: Why Americans do not use PayPal?
Post by: MuggyWuggy on November 06, 2013, 12:44:13 AM
PayPal was trying to return funds to lady who got her account hacked from my account by withdrawing from it ala my PayPal account
Title: Re: Why Americans do not use PayPal?
Post by: whitedrake on November 06, 2013, 01:06:24 AM
Quote from: Muggywuggy on November 06, 2013, 12:44:13 AM
PayPal was trying to return funds to lady who got her account hacked from my account by withdrawing from it ala my PayPal account

Hacked account...? Like that they accused u of hitting her paypal account??? Would not be that felony?
I still do not get it... Possibly the language barrier is preventing me from geting it...:(
Title: Re: Why Americans do not use PayPal?
Post by: Anoobass on November 06, 2013, 01:52:06 AM
Let me try to help out, I anoobass, stole, umm, let's say keyoto's paypal account.  I then purchased $1000 worth of alters from you, whitedrake.  PayPal found out the money was stolen and tried to take the $1000 that you earned, out of your account.

I'm assuming that is the scenario.
Title: Re: Why Americans do not use PayPal?
Post by: MuggyWuggy on November 06, 2013, 03:24:40 PM
And you lose all your cards
Title: Re: Why Americans do not use PayPal?
Post by: whitedrake on November 08, 2013, 03:31:35 PM
Quote from: Anoobass on November 06, 2013, 01:52:06 AM
Let me try to help out, I anoobass, stole, umm, let's say keyoto's paypal account.  I then purchased $1000 worth of alters from you, whitedrake.  PayPal found out the money was stolen and tried to take the $1000 that you earned, out of your account.

I'm assuming that is the scenario.

That would be nonsense because I would have proof that I sent to buyers address some items...;) of course if they would return me goods then no problem... And I am sure that it does not work that way. Anyway stole his account? How? Like that you would hack 256-bit encrypted access?

Anyway as I wrote before noone can steal your cards if you do not list them and even if you do then they are listed encrypted... Only 4 last numbers visible...;)
Title: Re: Why Americans do not use PayPal?
Post by: Ertai on November 08, 2013, 08:44:14 PM
Quote from: whitedrake on November 08, 2013, 03:31:35 PM
Quote from: Anoobass on November 06, 2013, 01:52:06 AM
Let me try to help out, I anoobass, stole, umm, let's say keyoto's paypal account.  I then purchased $1000 worth of alters from you, whitedrake.  PayPal found out the money was stolen and tried to take the $1000 that you earned, out of your account.

I'm assuming that is the scenario.

That would be nonsense because I would have proof that I sent to buyers address some items...;) of course if they would return me goods then no problem... And I am sure that it does not work that way. Anyway stole his account? How? Like that you would hack 256-bit encrypted access?

Anyway as I wrote before noone can steal your cards if you do not list them and even if you do then they are listed encrypted... Only 4 last numbers visible...;)

What you're describing is exactly the same as a credit card or debit card. Only the last four numbers are visible. Also, the bank and/or lenders that offer the credit/debit cards have anti fraud and identity theft protections that's far more secure than paypal is. PayPal is a 3rd party company not accredited by the BBB or better business beauro. Ergo, banks and lending company's who are acredited are far more secured and can be trusted.

Oh, and it can take several days before the money is processed through paypal, where it only takes seconds with a credit card or debit card!
Title: Re: Why Americans do not use PayPal?
Post by: whitedrake on November 08, 2013, 09:30:35 PM
Mhmm but you are still missing one thing, if you will have your card linked and paying by card via paypal then you have practicaly two security checks, first from PP and then from card provider.... Visa, MasterCard etc...

If someone will steal your card and you will not be able to prove that you did not make current transactions you will not get anything... If you will buy something by card on the net and you will not get the item, then you have no way how to get money back...

I still cannot see the disadvantages... It is secured better than build-in forms for paying by card on most of the sites.
Title: Re: Why Americans do not use PayPal?
Post by: Ertai on November 08, 2013, 09:52:16 PM
Yeah, so, what you're saying is the exact same thing that a credit card does.

I'm not sure what you're trying to say, bud. I think you're disproving yourself.
Title: Re: Why Americans do not use PayPal?
Post by: whitedrake on November 08, 2013, 11:41:15 PM
How so?

The whole thing that with paypal if I use it in a wise way then I will never reveal my card information during the paying on the internet. With the direct card paying it is much easier... That's whole my point...

Honestly the real truth is what exactly wrote #noided here above, the payments on the internet are as secured as its user is careful, but I still do not get why are Americans so affraid of using paypal... So far I read here only some wild theories that I meet hard to see true. Like account theft, major fraud... Those are possible for both ways of payment, but double-shielding of PayPal or simply charge to pay way of PayPal seems much more safe to me than insert your card number and cvc code somewhere to some form...

Title: Re: Why Americans do not use PayPal?
Post by: Ertai on November 08, 2013, 11:47:03 PM
I think it's because it takes too long to process a paypal payment. It's annoying to set up and it's annoying to put money in all the time.

And by the time all that was done, a credit card would be used and you would have been used by then.
Title: Re: Why Americans do not use PayPal?
Post by: whitedrake on November 08, 2013, 11:51:16 PM
If you transfer money from one paypal account to another then the money are transfered immediately. Same it is with payments on the intenet. I am selling stuff on ebay and directly via paypal payments and I always had money immediately.

That assumption is simply false. Only thing that takes from 1-2 days is withdrawing or charging the account. And that should not be a problem.
Title: Re: Why Americans do not use PayPal?
Post by: MuggyWuggy on November 09, 2013, 07:28:49 AM
It's all different really and based around how much you use PayPal. When I first sold things on eBay it took a month for payments to clear, now they are instant. That makes eBay much easier for me to use.
Title: Re: Why Americans do not use PayPal?
Post by: Piotr on November 10, 2013, 05:24:42 AM
Americans do not use PayPal because it is expensive.
Title: Re: Why Americans do not use PayPal?
Post by: Mlerner12 on November 10, 2013, 08:22:00 PM
Quote from: #noided on November 05, 2013, 08:37:34 PM
Paypal is only as secure as the user. As is paying by debit/CC.

Last year, Anonymous leaked the information to paypal accounts. Just because you haven't experienced problems doesn't mean they don't exist.
So is it bad I follow anonymous on twitter? Lol.
And I'm American and I use paypal and it's great.
Title: Re: Why Americans do not use PayPal?
Post by: Piotr on November 11, 2013, 05:34:42 AM
Quote from: Taysby on November 10, 2013, 09:28:03 PM
Of course I go, if you are that paranoid, how do you even do anything in life.  I think its fine to use, but that fee really p***** me off.

Yes, the fee is too expensive.
Title: Re: Why Americans do not use PayPal?
Post by: MuggyWuggy on November 11, 2013, 01:32:48 PM
Especially selling on eBay which requires PayPal

Get taxed twice, not to mention you're shipping cost definitely affect your potential sales.

Tcg is a great example of that, you only get certain shipping rates, then you got to worry about tracking as someone may say they never got it. That's .90 extra always for using their service and they are still taxing you on that shipping!
Title: Re: Why Americans do not use PayPal?
Post by: Piotr on November 11, 2013, 03:56:42 PM
Quote from: Muggywuggy on November 11, 2013, 01:32:48 PM
Especially selling on eBay which requires PayPal

Get taxed twice, not to mention you're shipping cost definitely affect your potential sales.

Tcg is a great example of that, you only get certain shipping rates, then you got to worry about tracking as someone may say they never got it. That's .90 extra always for using their service and they are still taxing you on that shipping!

I should start my own shop then ;)
Title: Re: Why Americans do not use PayPal?
Post by: whitedrake on November 11, 2013, 06:06:32 PM
Mhmm but that fee applies only for the seller and not a buyer...;) and yes I agree 5 percent is quite big fee, but on the other hand if you are going to use pp only for buying you will never pay anything extra...;)
Title: Re: Why Americans do not use PayPal?
Post by: Piotr on November 11, 2013, 06:26:28 PM
Quote from: whitedrake on November 11, 2013, 06:06:32 PM
Mhmm but that fee applies only for the seller and not a buyer...;) and yes I agree 5 percent is quite big fee, but on the other hand if you are going to use pp only for buying you will never pay anything extra...;)

Fee is added to the price so of course it applies to the buyer. Most Americans understand how economics works, they live in a free market economy when compared to socialism in Norway. They choose to buy cheaper from cheaper vendors who do not add PayPal fee.
Title: Re: Why Americans do not use PayPal?
Post by: whitedrake on November 11, 2013, 06:30:32 PM
Piotr we have "free" not regulated market here ad well...:D

But yeah you can say that our model is not that "free" as american one...;) But with all the respect I cannot see any finance problems here in Norway...:)
Title: Re: Why Americans do not use PayPal?
Post by: Piotr on November 12, 2013, 12:10:12 PM
Quote from: whitedrake on November 11, 2013, 06:30:32 PM
Piotr we have "free" not regulated market here ad well...:D

But yeah you can say that our model is not that "free" as american one...;) But with all the respect I cannot see any finance problems here in Norway...:)

It is hard to see problems when you are living off of natural resources. Not every country is as fortunate as Norway in that aspect ;)
Title: Re: Why Americans do not use PayPal?
Post by: MuggyWuggy on November 12, 2013, 05:24:55 PM
PayPal is ok if all you do is buy an item on eBay every once in a while.

Their lack of security poses a threat to many as getting your direct routing info or credit card info out into the Internet can have far graver consequences than you could imagine.

As someone who sells stuff on the Internet. I loathe TCG - essentially to sell any card out in standard rotation, you need to sell it for the cheapest number. Now imagine - I sell a boros reckoner for $12 to meet the low price {Boros Reckoner}

I'm now getting a % of that $12 taxed by TCG & Paypal! Oh you better not forget the tracking that cost more than your postage.

So I'm getting like $8.50 for a Reckoner? Ill pass and sell in person for at least $15


On the subject of tcg also: they only allow you to list 10 cards initially, so you have to wanted cards, that sell for the cheapest, and HOPE you get feedback allowing you to "level up" to sell more items. And people are lazy about feedback if eBay has taught me anything
Title: Re: Why Americans do not use PayPal?
Post by: whitedrake on November 12, 2013, 06:38:11 PM
Quote from: Piotr on November 12, 2013, 12:10:12 PM
Quote from: whitedrake on November 11, 2013, 06:30:32 PM
Piotr we have "free" not regulated market here ad well...:D

But yeah you can say that our model is not that "free" as american one...;) But with all the respect I cannot see any finance problems here in Norway...:)

It is hard to see problems when you are living off of natural resources. Not every country is as fortunate as Norway in that aspect ;)

Oh that's not only that.. Norway is country with one of the highest taxes in Europe..;) the state is able to put more to its reserves and social system... ;)
Title: Re: Why Americans do not use PayPal?
Post by: whitedrake on November 12, 2013, 06:43:54 PM
Quote from: Muggywuggy on November 12, 2013, 05:24:55 PM
PayPal is ok if all you do is buy an item on eBay every once in a while.

Their lack of security poses a threat to many as getting your direct routing info or credit card info out into the Internet can have far graver consequences than you could imagine.

As someone who sells stuff on the Internet. I loathe TCG - essentially to sell any card out in standard rotation, you need to sell it for the cheapest number. Now imagine - I sell a boros reckoner for $12 to meet the low price {Boros Reckoner}

I'm now getting a % of that $12 taxed by TCG & Paypal! Oh you better not forget the tracking that cost more than your postage.

So I'm getting like $8.50 for a Reckoner? Ill pass and sell in person for at least $15


On the subject of tcg also: they only allow you to list 10 cards initially, so you have to wanted cards, that sell for the cheapest, and HOPE you get feedback allowing you to "level up" to sell more items. And people are lazy about feedback if eBay has taught me anything

Oh man... You are so mistaken in many ways...;)

First your data on PayPal are not visible to anyone... You still are living in some illusion that the company is not forced to secure their transactions... They are forced by law of your own country and they are periodically checked by auditors... In the same way as banks are... If they would have security problems than they would not operate anymore.

And please fees on ebay and pp combined are not doing 25 percent as you tried to elaborate...;) they are hardly 10 percent...  And you can always list your item with more options of shipping with/ without tracking to cover your shipping costs...