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Talrand, The Bounce Counterspeller 105 cards, 0 sideboard 1 {Nykthos, Shrine to Nyx} 1 {Lonely Sandbar} 1 {Mikokoro, Center of the Sea} 1 {Moonring Island} 28 {Island} 1 {Coral Atoll} 1 {Reliquary Tower} 34 lands 1 {Mnemonic Wall} 1 {Elite Arcanist} 1 {Jin-Gitaxias, Core Augur} 1 {Arcanis the Omnipotent} 1 {Jace's Archivist} 1 {Ertai, Wizard Adept} 1 {Echo Mage} 1 {Erayo, Soratami Ascendant} 1 {Draining Whelk} 1 {Guile} 1 {Tidespout Tyrant} 1 {Kira, Great Glass-Spinner} 1 {Talrand, Sky Summoner} 13 creatures 1 {Repulse} 1 {Remove Soul} 1 {Bident of Thassa} 1 {Repel} 1 {Spin into Myth} 1 {Strionic Resonator} 1 {Jace Beleren} 1 {Caged Sun} 1 {Foil} 1 {Vacuumelt} 1 {Swan Song} 1 {Rhystic Study} 1 {Ætherspouts} 1 {Split Decision} 1 {Call to Mind} 1 {Disperse} 1 {Into the Roil} 1 {Snap} 1 {Time Ebb} 1 {Psychic Barrier} 1 {Parallel Thoughts} 1 {Deprive} 1 {Cancel} 1 {Mindbreak Trap} 1 {Unified Will} 1 {Spell Burst} 1 {Spell Crumple} 1 {Controvert} 1 {Forbid} 1 {Cyclonic Rift} 1 {Griptide} 1 {Curfew} 1 {Rewind} 1 {Karn Liberated} 1 {Dismal Failure} 1 {Chain of Vapor} 1 {Wash Out} 1 {Inundate} 1 {Hinder} 1 {Mind Spring} 1 {Coastal Piracy} 1 {Staff of Nin} 1 {Vanishment} 1 {Blue Sun's Zenith} 1 {Distorting Wake} 1 {Lay Bare} 1 {Capsize} 1 {Declaration of Naught} 1 {Dissipate} 1 {Bone to Ash} 1 {Desertion} 1 {Minds Aglow} 1 {Counterspell} 1 {Boomerang} 1 {Tamiyo, the Moon Sage} 1 {Isochron Scepter} 1 {Runechanter's Pike} 1 {Arcane Laboratory} 58 other spells Sideboard Notes: Bounce + Drake, Counterspell + Drake, repeat...

➕{Nykthos, Shrine to Nyx}
➖{Island}
➕{Jace Beleren}
➖{Temple Bell}

➖{Talrand, Sky Summoner}
➖{Quicksilver Geyser}
➖{Cancel}
➖{Disappear}
➖{Sphinx-Bone Wand}
➖{Essence Scatter}
➖{Unsummon}
➖{Brainstorm}

Quote from: Dudecore on October 30, 2013, 09:10:12 AM
➕{Nykthos, Shrine to Nyx}
➖{Island}

Seems pretty reasonable :P

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➕{Jace Beleren}

Also good call - forgot about Jace somehow!

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➖{Temple Bell}

Cutting repeatable card draw I'm less sure about. My hand it going to empty fast with this deck, and even though the bell draws for everyone else too, it keeps control spells flowing to me.

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➖{Talrand, Sky Summoner}

You cuttin' my commander? :P I can't do that, the whole deck relies on his drakes!

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➖{Quicksilver Geyser}
➖{Cancel}
➖{Essence Scatter}
➖{Unsummon}

I guess I have better bounce/counter options... It just hurts to cut such reliable, low-mana hard spells that work. Essence scatter is the only one I have real issues about cutting - it's a Counterspell that I can fit into Isocron Scepter.

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➖{Disappear}

I like disappear because it's repeatable. It is a lot of mana, and as an enchantment it doesn't trigger Talrand...so I see your point. It probably has to go, which makes me super sad.

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➖{Sphinx-Bone Wand}

I know a 7 drop is a lot, but I feel it just fits too perfectly with this deck. It has some crazy potential, and I can't bring myself to cut it.

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➖{Brainstorm}

Hmm...isn't brainstorm really good? Why cut it?


Thank you for this help! I'd +10 you for it if I could

Quote from: Gorzo on October 30, 2013, 02:40:25 PM
➕{Nykthos, Shrine to Nyx}
➖{Island}

Seems pretty reasonable :P

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➕{Jace Beleren}

Also good call - forgot about Jace somehow!

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➖{Temple Bell}

Well I figured you're getting practically the same effect from Jace - with a bonus. I don't know how many cards like this you're going to want.

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➖{Talrand, Sky Summoner}

Moving him to the command zone.

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➖{Quicksilver Geyser}
➖{Cancel}
➖{Essence Scatter}
➖{Unsummon}

You've got better options. Essence Scatter is not well-rounded enough in my opinion. I wouldn't put it on an Isochron Scepter unless I was desperate.

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➖{Disappear}

You guessed right.

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➖{Sphinx-Bone Wand}

I think this card stinks on ice. Too much mana, too vulnerable, too small.

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➖{Brainstorm}

Brainstorm is really good in Legacy, yes. I don't like cheap effects like this in commander. It takes up a card space, you've really only 1 way to reuse it {Archaeomancer}, and it's worse then it's alternatives ({Jace, the Mind Sculptor} :))

I prefer more value out of my EDH cards. Something like {Capsize} simply rules in EDH, while {Vapor Snag}/{Unsummon} are 1 and done. I've never lost any game, or seen anyone lose a game because they lacked a way to remove 1 creature. I've seen plenty lose because they didn't have a counterspell. Never seen anyone tutor one of those spells either. I know you get a flying token, but recursion is king in EDH. Anything with flashback is almost strictly better then it's single-serving brethren.

Good point with Jace and the temple bell.

As for brainstorm, yeah, let me just go grab that JTMS I have sitting around... :P

Quote from: Gorzo on October 30, 2013, 03:01:10 PM
Good point with Jace and the temple bell.

As for brainstorm, yeah, let me just go grab that JTMS I have sitting around... :P

I live in a world where everyone has a JtMS lying around -.- my humblest apologies. What is this thing called "budget"?

Haha your world sounds like a wonderful place.

Another thought: {Strionic Resonator}?

Another another thought: {Caged Sun}?

Are these good worth adding?

Quote from: Gorzo on October 30, 2013, 03:05:57 PM
Haha your world sounds like a wonderful place.

Another thought: {Strionic Resonator}?

I screwed around with it for a week, never liked it. Not a card for me, but you might find it interesting.

I might have to try it. 2 extra mana for an extra {wind drake} every time I cast a spell seems like a handy option to have.

May benefit from {Tezzeret, the Seeker} for his tutor effect and reuse of {Isochron scepter}, {Sensei's Divining Top} and things of that nature. If you do add him:
➖{Island}
➕{Seat of the Synod}

The reason why Brainstorm and JTMS get so much play in Legacy are because of the abundance of shuffle effects through fetch lands. It just allows you to sculpt the most desirable hand you can. Pun not intended. =P
Strionic Resonator is really good whe you have stuff like huge etb effects. In my Rafiq deck I use it to copy a {Prime Speaker Zegana} for 7, so I draw 14 instead. It might not be so good when you basically just pay 2 for a 2/2 in EDH

Quote from: Dudecore on October 30, 2013, 03:16:57 PM
May benefit from {Tezzeret, the Seeker} for his tutor effect and reuse of {Isochron scepter}, {Sensei's Divining Top} and things of that nature. If you do add him:
➖{Island}
➕{Seat of the Synod}

I do like that idea. Being able to tutor the scepter with future benefits is very, very nice.

Quote from: ConanEdo on October 30, 2013, 04:46:19 PM
{{Riptide Laboratory}}
{{Venser, Shaper Savant}}
{{Snapcaster Mage}}

Oh damn you. I'd already cut both Snapcaster and Venser for being creatures (not instants) with 1-time uses. You are a cruel, cruel man to show me Riptide Lab and make me want to add them back in :P