Just want to ask the ruling for pack rat. What if i had 3 copies of pack rats in play and my opponent cast a ratchet bomb and activate it for zero does all of my pack rat dies? One more are all the copies of pack rats in play have a connection to the devotion? I mean does erebus meets its devotion if your having 4 pack rats in play?
Quote from: Eight-six on October 26, 2013, 02:27:00 PM
Just want to ask the ruling for {pack rat}. What if i had 3 copies of pack rats in play and my opponent cast a {ratchet bomb} and activate it for zero does all of my pack rat dies? One more are all the copies of pack rats in play have a connection to the devotion? I mean does erebus meets its devotion if your having 4 pack rats in play?
Yes, a token that is a copy of a creature copied all things the original card had (Mana cost, etc) but not counters. Erebos would meet his devotion. That is how I understand it.
All the tokens die. Since the tokens themselves do not have a mana cost, they are destroyed by the ratchet bombs 0 mana detonation.
Taysby and spencer i think there's a conflict between your answers well i want to know whats the correct one? Thanks for replying by the way.
Quote from: Eight-six on October 26, 2013, 02:37:37 PM
Taysby and spencer i think there's a conflict between your answers well i want to know whats the correct one? Thanks for replying by the way.
Taysby and I got it right. I'll find a ruling, hold on.
Quote from: Mlerner12 on October 26, 2013, 02:31:10 PM
Yes, a token that is a copy of a creature copied all things the original card had (Mana cost, etc) but not counters. Erebos would meet his devotion. That is how I understand it.
Thank you...
Quote from: Taysby on October 26, 2013, 02:52:54 PM
110.5b (http://imtgapp.com/forum/index.php?action=imtg;area=rule;number=110.5b): The spell or ability that creates a token may define the values of any number of characteristics for the token. This becomes the token's "text." The characteristic values defined this way are functionally equivalent to the characteristic values that are printed on a card; for example, they define the token's copiable values. A token doesn't have any characteristics not defined by the spell or ability that created it.
Example: Jade Mage has the ability "{2}{G}: Put a 1/1 green Saproling creature token onto the battlefield." The resulting token has no mana cost, supertype, rules text, or abilities.
So it makes a copy and the copy is defined by everything on the original card.
Uhm i see thank you....
Quote from: Taysby on October 26, 2013, 02:52:54 PM
110.5b (http://imtgapp.com/forum/index.php?action=imtg;area=rule;number=110.5b): The spell or ability that creates a token may define the values of any number of characteristics for the token. This becomes the token's "text." The characteristic values defined this way are functionally equivalent to the characteristic values that are printed on a card; for example, they define the token's copiable values. A token doesn't have any characteristics not defined by the spell or ability that created it.
Example: Jade Mage has the ability "{2}{G}: Put a 1/1 green Saproling creature token onto the battlefield." The resulting token has no mana cost, supertype, rules text, or abilities.
So it makes a copy and the copy is defined by everything on the original card.
To further elaborate, {pack rat} makes a copy of itself, and since pack rat has a cmc of 2, the token copy will also have a cmc of 2.
Huh. My bad. Apologies for the misinformation
Quote from: Pleeb on October 26, 2013, 03:04:12 PM
Quote from: Taysby on October 26, 2013, 02:52:54 PM
110.5b (http://imtgapp.com/forum/index.php?action=imtg;area=rule;number=110.5b): The spell or ability that creates a token may define the values of any number of characteristics for the token. This becomes the token's "text." The characteristic values defined this way are functionally equivalent to the characteristic values that are printed on a card; for example, they define the token's copiable values. A token doesn't have any characteristics not defined by the spell or ability that created it.
Example: Jade Mage has the ability "{2}{G}: Put a 1/1 green Saproling creature token onto the battlefield." The resulting token has no mana cost, supertype, rules text, or abilities.
So it makes a copy and the copy is defined by everything on the original card.
To further elaborate, {pack rat} makes a copy of itself, and since pack rat has a cmc of 2, the token copy will also have a cmc of 2.
All copies have that, be they creatures or tokens.
Tokens only USUALLY have no cost, but this does not mean a token can't have a CMC. We could have an effect one day that says "put a 3/3 colorless golem onto the battlefield with converted mana cost 3."
Quote from: Kaleo42 on October 26, 2013, 03:34:06 PM
Tokens only USUALLY have no cost, but this does not mean a token can't have a CMC. We could have an effect one day that says "put a 3/3 colorless golem onto the battlefield with converted mana cost 3."
That'd be weird.
Quote from: Mlerner12 on October 26, 2013, 04:01:59 PM
Quote from: Kaleo42 on October 26, 2013, 03:34:06 PM
Tokens only USUALLY have no cost, but this does not mean a token can't have a CMC. We could have an effect one day that says "put a 3/3 colorless golem onto the battlefield with converted mana cost 3."
That'd be weird.
We have devotion now we could even see something like this that makes devotion better.
Quote from: Mlerner12 on October 26, 2013, 03:25:36 PM
Quote from: Pleeb on October 26, 2013, 03:04:12 PM
Quote from: Taysby on October 26, 2013, 02:52:54 PM
110.5b (http://imtgapp.com/forum/index.php?action=imtg;area=rule;number=110.5b): The spell or ability that creates a token may define the values of any number of characteristics for the token. This becomes the token's "text." The characteristic values defined this way are functionally equivalent to the characteristic values that are printed on a card; for example, they define the token's copiable values. A token doesn't have any characteristics not defined by the spell or ability that created it.
Example: Jade Mage has the ability "{2}{G}: Put a 1/1 green Saproling creature token onto the battlefield." The resulting token has no mana cost, supertype, rules text, or abilities.
So it makes a copy and the copy is defined by everything on the original card.
To further elaborate, {pack rat} makes a copy of itself, and since pack rat has a cmc of 2, the token copy will also have a cmc of 2.
All copies have that, be they creatures or tokens.
Yes they do. But Taysbe's example didn't have a cmc, and I thought it could mislead people into thinking that no tokens had a cmc. I just gave the example for clarification.