For the better part of 3 days I've been debating which clone I should use. The following have been put in relation to my deck also.
{Phantasmal Image}
Currently my go-to clone. I like him and what he does. Cheap and I can reuse him with {Sun Titan}. By having Phantasmal image EtB as Sun Titan, then reanimate something else I get good value.
{Body Double}
It's just super powerful. I like powerful cards...
{Rite of Replication}
I can use this, and get recursion with {Archaeomancer}
All the clones
I would go with phantasmal image, it has the lowest mana cost, it gets around shroud, it can be brought back with sun titan if it dies, and I'm sure there's more good stuff about it that I can't think of at the moment
I'd probably go with {Rite of Replication}, there's too many possible spells in EDH for me to feel my Illusion creature is safe.
Maybe a stupid question, but have you thought about {Quicksilver Gargantuan}? EDH has the mana base for it? Granted, it doesn't get an appearance till T7 without a {Quicksilver Amulet} or reanimator, but still...
No love for {Phyrexian Metamorph}? 3 mana + 2 life to clone creature OR artifact is pretty damn good in a format with some seriously nasty artifacts popping up now and then.
To a significantly less powerful extent, I like to play around with {cryptoplasm}, which may not enter as a clone, but allows itself to "upgrade" each of your turns as new threats/options appear.
I might consider {Gilded Drake} (loosely a Clone)
{Phyrexian Metamorph} is a badass, but it doesn't play to any of my decks strengths. For the mana, I like {Body Double} more - all of the good things are usually dead. I don't get recursion with him either...
{Temple of the False God} vs. {Ancient Tomb}
Quote from: Dudecore on October 25, 2013, 08:40:49 PM
{Temple of the False God} vs. {Ancient Tomb}
I prefer {Ancient Tomb}. It sucks getting stuck with a {Temple of the False God} in opening hand.
{clone} is pretty good, and anything Gorzo said is good too ;)
Quote from: Dudecore on October 24, 2013, 08:51:40 AM
I might consider {Gilded Drake} (loosely a Clone)
{Phyrexian Metamorph} is a badass, but it doesn't play to any of my decks strengths. For the mana, I like {Body Double} more - all of the good things are usually dead. I don't get recursion with him either...
I'd use {Gilded Drake}. Clones have lost alot of their power with the new legendary rule change. I'd rather take their toy away from them and play with it myself than have us both end up with the same toy.
Quote from: Agrus Kos, Enforcer of Truth on October 25, 2013, 10:11:25 PM
Quote from: Dudecore on October 24, 2013, 08:51:40 AM
I might consider {Gilded Drake} (loosely a Clone)
{Phyrexian Metamorph} is a badass, but it doesn't play to any of my decks strengths. For the mana, I like {Body Double} more - all of the good things are usually dead. I don't get recursion with him either...
I'd use {Gilded Drake}. Clones have lost alot of their power with the new legendary rule change. I'd rather take their toy away from them and play with it myself than have us both end up with the same toy.
Drake/Metamorph are the two best "clones" in my opinion. Unless you want to play {Vesuvan Shapeshifter}, which is extremely good for when someone plays another card you want to copy.
Do you run {Kokusho, the Evening Star}? Cause a kicked {Rite of Replication} is nasty, not to mention copying eldrazi or other huge sticks...
Quote from: Dudecore on October 25, 2013, 08:40:49 PM
{Temple of the False God} vs. {Ancient Tomb}
I'm a big fan if {Temple of the False God} in EDH. The slower, casual speed of the format really eases the "5 lands or more" clause, and I very, very rarely have trouble breaching that threshold, making it have no down side 95-99% of the time.
{Ancient Tomb}, while definitely good, will always have that minor down side. Regardless of the board state.
Of course you can always run both :)
Quote from: Dudecore on October 25, 2013, 08:40:49 PM
{Temple of the False God} vs. {Ancient Tomb}
If money is not an obstacle I go Tomb, in fact I don't run false god in any deck cause it takes too long for me to benefit from it. It does have a place in an Esper build.
The point of {Ancient Tomb} is to push you ahead of your opponent. {Temple of the False God} may seem better because of the lack of the life loss, but it is actually worse. This is because getting ahead maters more the earlier the game is. Why isn't {Serra Avenger} broken? Just like {Temple of the False God}, you get more than you pay for (2 mana; 1 land drop). However, both cards restrict you from using that advantage by not allowing you to play them when they want to be played. If you could run shock lands, or original dual lands in a deck, but the original dual lands couldn't be played until your third turn, which would you run? That's why {Ancient Tomb} is better. It not only gives you what you want, but it also gives you it when you want it...for a price ;) but in EDH it is worth it. Even a 1 mana jump is very good no matter which format you play.
Thank you for the advice everyone. I'm gonna go with {Ancient Tomb} for now. If I find that it's detrimental I'll switch to {Temple of the False God}
Personally, I just play both. Unless you don't have a lot of high drops in your deck, the extra mana is always helpful.
Is your EDH just u/w?
Quote from: Coffee Vampire on October 26, 2013, 08:20:32 AM
The point of {Ancient Tomb} is to push you ahead of your opponent. {Temple of the False God} may seem better because of the lack of the life loss, but it is actually worse. This is because getting ahead maters more the earlier the game is. Why isn't {Serra Avenger} broken? Just like {Temple of the False God}, you get more than you pay for (2 mana; 1 land drop). However, both cards restrict you from using that advantage by not allowing you to play them when they want to be played. If you could run shock lands, or original dual lands in a deck, but the original dual lands couldn't be played until your third turn, which would you run? That's why {Ancient Tomb} is better. It not only gives you what you want, but it also gives you it when you want it...for a price ;) but in EDH it is worth it. Even a 1 mana jump is very good no matter which format you play.
I agree with this for every format EXCEPT EDH. The advantage of the tomb is life for speed. In competitive formats, that's crucial, and that's why the tomb has its price tag. In commander, though, where Spike takes a back seat and the format slows down to a casual pace, the Temple gets to show off what it can do.
Quote from: Gorzo on October 26, 2013, 04:44:14 PM
Quote from: Coffee Vampire on October 26, 2013, 08:20:32 AM
The point of {Ancient Tomb} is to push you ahead of your opponent. {Temple of the False God} may seem better because of the lack of the life loss, but it is actually worse. This is because getting ahead maters more the earlier the game is. Why isn't {Serra Avenger} broken? Just like {Temple of the False God}, you get more than you pay for (2 mana; 1 land drop). However, both cards restrict you from using that advantage by not allowing you to play them when they want to be played. If you could run shock lands, or original dual lands in a deck, but the original dual lands couldn't be played until your third turn, which would you run? That's why {Ancient Tomb} is better. It not only gives you what you want, but it also gives you it when you want it...for a price ;) but in EDH it is worth it. Even a 1 mana jump is very good no matter which format you play.
I agree with this for every format EXCEPT EDH. The advantage of the tomb is life for speed. In competitive formats, that's crucial, and that's why the tomb has its price tag. In commander, though, where Spike takes a back seat and the format slows down to a casual pace, the Temple gets to show off what it can do.
I'm still on Coffee's side, I have play tested both probably 100-200 games and the Tomb is always much more relevant, to the point where I cut the Temple in favor of a basic land.
Quote from: Gorzo on October 26, 2013, 04:44:14 PM
Quote from: Coffee Vampire on October 26, 2013, 08:20:32 AM
The point of {Ancient Tomb} is to push you ahead of your opponent. {Temple of the False God} may seem better because of the lack of the life loss, but it is actually worse. This is because getting ahead maters more the earlier the game is. Why isn't {Serra Avenger} broken? Just like {Temple of the False God}, you get more than you pay for (2 mana; 1 land drop). However, both cards restrict you from using that advantage by not allowing you to play them when they want to be played. If you could run shock lands, or original dual lands in a deck, but the original dual lands couldn't be played until your third turn, which would you run? That's why {Ancient Tomb} is better. It not only gives you what you want, but it also gives you it when you want it...for a price ;) but in EDH it is worth it. Even a 1 mana jump is very good no matter which format you play.
I agree with this for every format EXCEPT EDH. The advantage of the tomb is life for speed. In competitive formats, that's crucial, and that's why the tomb has its price tag. In commander, though, where Spike takes a back seat and the format slows down to a casual pace, the Temple gets to show off what it can do.
EDH isn't a "no spikes allowed" format. For me EDH id where my spike side comes out. In standard I make fun janky decks and maybe win a pack. However I have a spike inside my soul. The spike wants to prove himself to others. The hardest type of deck to build is an EDH deck, and so when it comes to EDH, I take pride im building the best deck. {Ancient Tomb} is in every deck that I have built. {Temple of the False God} is in none of them. It's simple: (card that is useful all the time) > (card that is not useful all the time).
I agree with all points that have been made in both lands and I feel each has there own places in certain decks. With that said I also feel that it depends upon the person and how they like to play. I personally use both (not in a single deck). If it's a very Spikeish deck that I've built to attempt to win proficiently ill use the tomb. Where as if it's more of a casual fun deck for me ill use the temple because in not as worried about the speed advantage then.
It's probably a pretty meta-heavy decision on that one, too. My friends and are all extremely laid back when we play commander - we don't really care who wins, we just want a fun game. That sort of environment plays much more towards the temple. If your play group (or just you yourself) plays for the wins, I can see that playstyle easily pushing a player more towards the tomb.
Quote from: Gorzo on October 28, 2013, 05:05:38 AM
It's probably a pretty meta-heavy decision on that one, too. My friends and are all extremely laid back when we play commander - we don't really care who wins, we just want a fun game. That sort of environment plays much more towards the temple. If your play group (or just you yourself) plays for the wins, I can see that playstyle easily pushing a player more towards the tomb.
Yeah definitely see it as a meta consideration, but it is a must include for new players simply for $ vs value.