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Magic (The Gathering) => Rules => Topic started by: Mlerner12 on October 10, 2013, 05:44:14 PM

Title: Savage force
Post by: Mlerner12 on October 10, 2013, 05:44:14 PM
{Force of Savagery} has 0 toughness, right? So, the ruling says "Triggered abilities won't save it." And since {Master Biomancer} and things like that are triggered, won't it die as a state-based action no matter what? Indestructible is only lethal damage/destroy and doesn't stop this guy.
Title: Re: Savage force
Post by: DylanW18 on October 10, 2013, 05:48:13 PM

5/1/2007   

Yes, Force of Savagery has 0 toughness. It will be put into its owner's graveyard as a state-based action immediately upon entering the battlefield unless an effect puts it onto the battlefield with a counter on it (such as {Chorus of the Conclave} would) or a static ability boosts its toughness (such as {Glorious Anthem} would). A triggered or activated ability that boosts toughness won't have its effect fast enough to save it.
Title: Re: Savage force
Post by: Mlerner12 on October 10, 2013, 05:51:36 PM
Quote from: DylanW18 on October 10, 2013, 05:48:13 PM
A triggered or activated ability that boosts toughness won't have its effect fast enough to save it.
This was what confused me, since the Conclave things are ETB trigger abilities :/
Title: Re: Savage force
Post by: DylanW18 on October 10, 2013, 05:54:22 PM
The difference is in the wording.

"~~~" enters the battlefield with an additional +1/+1 counter.

And

Whenever "~~~" enters the battlefield, put a +1/+1 counter on it.

I believe the first one happens as it is being cast, not after it resolves
Title: Re: Savage force
Post by: Gorzo on October 10, 2013, 05:55:06 PM
Quote from: Mlerner12 on October 10, 2013, 05:51:36 PM
Quote from: DylanW18 on October 10, 2013, 05:48:13 PM
A triggered or activated ability that boosts toughness won't have its effect fast enough to save it.
This was what confused me, since the Conclave things are ETB trigger abilities :/

Chorus of the Conclave is a cast trigger, not an ETB trigger. It will enter the battlefield with the +1 counters already on it (the card even specifies so). That's the difference. The key words are "when you cast" and "enters with."

Edit: Dylan beat me to it :P
Title: Re: Savage force
Post by: Kaleo42 on October 10, 2013, 05:56:00 PM
It happens as it resolves but before it is put onto the battlefield.
Title: Re: Savage force
Post by: Mlerner12 on October 10, 2013, 05:58:39 PM
Alright thanks people!
Title: Re: Savage force
Post by: DylanW18 on October 10, 2013, 05:59:58 PM
Woo! I was just guessing! Lol thanks for confirmation Gorzo :p
Title: Re: Savage force
Post by: Pleeb on October 10, 2013, 06:11:06 PM
I'm confused. Isn't  {master biomancer} a static ability?
Title: Re: Savage force
Post by: Wally on October 10, 2013, 06:13:01 PM
Yes. Master biomancer would also save it.