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Magic (The Gathering) => Rules => Topic started by: Maxpayne03 on October 09, 2013, 08:52:07 PM

Title: Land combo
Post by: Maxpayne03 on October 09, 2013, 08:52:07 PM
I think this is a famous combo but I cannot figure out how it work; ppl are using {Thespian's Stage} on {Dark Depths} to generate a free 20/20 legendary flying indestructible fiend?
Title: Re: Land combo
Post by: Pirate John on October 09, 2013, 08:53:33 PM
Thespian stage becomes a land with no counters on it.

RELEASE THE KRAKEN
Title: Re: Land combo
Post by: Agrus Kos, Enforcer of Truth on October 09, 2013, 08:53:44 PM
I am thinking that maybe the {Thespian's Stage}, because it doesn't enter the battlefield, has no counters on it and is therefore sacced to make the 20/20.
Title: Re: Land combo
Post by: Pirate John on October 09, 2013, 09:04:04 PM
On a second note, it'd be nice to look at this with respect to layering and the legend rule.

Would someone care to explain what happens to the original depths? Will it be sac'ed as a state based action before the controller is allowed to sac the thespian stage?
Title: Re: Land combo
Post by: Keyeto on October 09, 2013, 09:07:55 PM
Quote from: Pirate John on October 09, 2013, 09:04:04 PM
On a second note, it'd be nice to look at this with respect to layering and the legend rule.

Would someone care to explain what happens to the original depths? Will it be sac'ed as a state based action before the controller is allowed to sac the thespian stage?
No layering or anything needed. With the new legend rule, you get to choose which one to keep. Choose the Stage, and then sac it (since it has no counters).

New legend rule made this a lot easier to pull off.
Title: Re: Land combo
Post by: Pirate John on October 09, 2013, 09:11:50 PM
Quote from: Keyeto on October 09, 2013, 09:07:55 PM
Quote from: Pirate John on October 09, 2013, 09:04:04 PM
On a second note, it'd be nice to look at this with respect to layering and the legend rule.

Would someone care to explain what happens to the original depths? Will it be sac'ed as a state based action before the controller is allowed to sac the thespian stage?
No layering or anything needed. With the new legend rule, you get to choose which one to keep. Choose the Stage, and then sac it (since it has no counters).

New legend rule made this a lot easier to pull off.

Obviously you'll chose the stage because it lacks counters, but is it sac'ed to its trigger immediately after copying? Like before realizing there's 2 of the same legendary lands on the field?

Will you end up with Merit Lage + depths? Or just Merit Lage?
Title: Re: Land combo
Post by: Keyeto on October 09, 2013, 09:36:12 PM
Quote from: Pirate John on October 09, 2013, 09:11:50 PM
Quote from: Keyeto on October 09, 2013, 09:07:55 PM
Quote from: Pirate John on October 09, 2013, 09:04:04 PM
On a second note, it'd be nice to look at this with respect to layering and the legend rule.

Would someone care to explain what happens to the original depths? Will it be sac'ed as a state based action before the controller is allowed to sac the thespian stage?
No layering or anything needed. With the new legend rule, you get to choose which one to keep. Choose the Stage, and then sac it (since it has no counters).

New legend rule made this a lot easier to pull off.

Obviously you'll chose the stage because it lacks counters, but is it sac'ed to its trigger immediately after copying? Like before realizing there's 2 of the same legendary lands on the field?

Will you end up with Merit Lage + depths? Or just Merit Lage?
Just Merit Lage.

State based actions take their toll as soon as the Stage enters the field, and then its ability will go off and you'll sac it.
Title: Re: Land combo
Post by: Pirate John on October 09, 2013, 10:57:52 PM
Quote from: Keyeto on October 09, 2013, 09:36:12 PM
Quote from: Pirate John on October 09, 2013, 09:11:50 PM
Quote from: Keyeto on October 09, 2013, 09:07:55 PM
Quote from: Pirate John on October 09, 2013, 09:04:04 PM
On a second note, it'd be nice to look at this with respect to layering and the legend rule.

Would someone care to explain what happens to the original depths? Will it be sac'ed as a state based action before the controller is allowed to sac the thespian stage?
No layering or anything needed. With the new legend rule, you get to choose which one to keep. Choose the Stage, and then sac it (since it has no counters).

New legend rule made this a lot easier to pull off.

Obviously you'll chose the stage because it lacks counters, but is it sac'ed to its trigger immediately after copying? Like before realizing there's 2 of the same legendary lands on the field?

Will you end up with Merit Lage + depths? Or just Merit Lage?
Just Merit Lage.

State based actions take their toll as soon as the Stage enters the field, and then its ability will go off and you'll sac it.

MK. Thought so but I was just double checking. Thanks for the clarification
Title: Re: Land combo
Post by: Remillo on October 11, 2013, 10:17:06 AM
Here's just a run-down of exactly what happens:

You activate Thespian's Stage, targeting Dark Depths
The ability resolves and Thespian's Stage becomes a copy of Dark Depths with the Copy ability.  It has no counters on it because it's not entering the battlefield, it's simply becoming a copy of it.
State-Based Actions are checked and they see two things: Two Legendary Permanents with the same name with the same controller, and a Dark Depths without any Counters; Thespian's Stage's "No Counters" ability triggers
During State actions, you choose one of the Legendary permanents to keep (the Stage) and put the rest in to your graveyard
Then, once all other State actions are done, Stage's trigger is put on the stack
That resolves, and if you sacrifice the Stage for the Trigger, you end up with Marit Lage.

This whole thing works because the Legend rule change and because Thespian's Stage copies while it's already on the battlefield.  If you copied Drk Depths with Vesuva, Vesuva's replacement would apply and say "I want to enter as Dark Depths!  Is there anything else I need to do?", and then it sees that Dark Depths enters with counters and says, "Well, I should enter with those, too!" and comes in with counters on it.