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Magic (The Gathering) => Rules => Topic started by: Mattao19 on September 23, 2013, 12:15:00 PM

Title: Trample and deathtouch
Post by: Mattao19 on September 23, 2013, 12:15:00 PM
Guy had a 2/2 deathtouch and swung I had a PW at 1 and I wanted it to live so I blocked with an 0/4 wall he said that since it had both deathtouch and trample that he'd assign 1 to my wall and 1 to the PW is that legit?
Title: Re: Trample and deathtouch
Post by: Double-O-Scotch on September 23, 2013, 12:24:34 PM
Yup. Deathtouch trample is a brutal combo.

Example, 9/9 trample, deathtouch attacks. You block with {tree of redemption}, a 0/13 defender. Trample says once lethal damage is assigned, the rest tramples over. Soooo, 1 damage is dealt to the tree and the other 8 damage gets through.

I feel for ya bro, but that's the way the nugen crumbles...
Title: Re: Trample and deathtouch
Post by: Moocow4u2 on September 23, 2013, 12:24:35 PM
I wouldn't think so O.o I would think the damage goes to plainswalkers/players only after the lethal damage has been given to the creatures blocking
Title: Re: Trample and deathtouch
Post by: Double-O-Scotch on September 23, 2013, 12:28:58 PM
702.19b The controller of an attacking creature with trample first assigns damage to the creature(s) blocking it. Once all those blocking creatures are assigned lethal damage, any remaining damage is assigned as its controller chooses among those blocking creatures and the player or planeswalker the creature is attacking. When checking for assigned lethal damage, take into account damage already marked on the creature and damage from other creatures that's being assigned during the same combat damage step, but not any abilities or effects that might change the amount of damage that's actually dealt. The attacking creature's controller need not assign lethal damage to all those blocking creatures but in that case can't assign any damage to the player or planeswalker it's attacking.
Title: Re: Trample and deathtouch
Post by: Mattao19 on September 23, 2013, 12:43:02 PM
Thanks guys and damn that's a cool combo
Title: Re: Trample and deathtouch
Post by: Arbitratur on September 23, 2013, 01:55:39 PM
Okay so I was wrong with my first post but I found the correct way so here it is quoted off if another site.

Here are the relevant rules:
702.2b. Any nonzero amount of combat damage assigned to a creature by a source with deathtouch is considered to be lethal damage, regardless of that creature's toughness. See rules 510.1c-d.



702.18b. The controller of an attacking creature with trample first assigns damage to the creature(s) blocking it. Once all those blocking creatures are assigned lethal damage, any remaining damage is assigned as its controller chooses among those blocking creatures and the player or planeswalker the creature is attacking. When checking for assigned lethal damage, take into account damage already marked on the creature and damage from other creatures that's being assigned during the same combat damage step, but not any abilities or effects that might change the amount of damage that's actually dealt. The attacking creature's controller need not assign lethal damage to all those blocking creatures but in that case can't assign any damage to the player or planeswalker it's attacking.



In short, the combat rules look for the assignment of "lethal damage" before allowing you to move on to the next creature in damage assignment order (in the case of multiple blockers) or the player (in the case of trample), and the rules allow even a single point of damage from a source with deathttouch to be considered "lethal damage".

The deathtouch/trample interaction may be odd (though you can get flavor to justify it), but it's really just the inevitable result of deathtouch working sensibly plus trample working sensibly.
Title: Re: Trample and deathtouch
Post by: Gorzo on September 23, 2013, 04:06:46 PM
RESOLVED

Yes, this is how it works. Trample and Deathtouch are a very nasty pair.

Double-O and Arbit have posted all of the possible rulings here that you'll need on the subject.